The full details on reserved parking for the 23/24 season at Alpine Meadows and Palisades Tahoe have been announced. It’s no wonder it’s taken a long time for the official announcement, as there were so many unanswered questions the last time I posted on this a few weeks ago. This next statement may come as a surprise to you, but I am officially giving a hat tip to the Palisades Tahoe team for taking the time to come up with a plan that is about as fair as it can be, and for providing a ton of detail on what this all means for you. I feel heard.
That said, making parking reservations for 47 days this year will be pain in the rear. I know I am not the only person that is already attempting figure out if there is a way to have ChatGPT write a script to handle the task automatically each Tuesday, or who has a driveway space to rent out in Alpine Meadows for weekend days.
My plan for this post is to simplify the vast amounts of information presented within the new www.parkpalisadestahoe.com website; pose a few more lingering questions; and again address solutions that might work better for 24/25 and seasons beyond.
The Details Simplified
• All parking lots at Alpine Meadows and Palisades Tahoe will require parking reservations on weekends and holiday periods from December through March. The program could be extended into April. Currently it includes 47 days, but I counted with only one cup of coffee down the hatch.
• Parking reservations are license plate specific and area specific. When you sign up for an account, you supply your vehicle license number that you plan to use most of the time. Reservations will be released on Tuesdays, with half being released at 12pm and the second block released at 7pm. When making a reservation, you must specify Palisades or Alpine Meadows parking. How quickly will these reservations go? I will ask that question below.
• Parking employees will scan parked cars to confirm reservations after parking has been completed. This will eliminate any delays with people checking for a reservation, which has been a point of failure at other mountains. Because reservations are license plate specific, the odds that a secondary market will arise in selling parking reservations is minimal.
• In late October, a block of paid reservations will be released “starting at $30”. That will allow for booking ahead for people that are planning a family vacation, in particular for holiday periods. There are no details yet about how many spaces will be reserved for these paid reservations. I would guess that they have some good data to draw on from paid parking reservations in previous seasons.
• Your reservation is just for a space somewhere in some lot, not for a particular space. If you don’t want to be parking at Deer Park or Hidden Valley, you’re still leaving early.
• There are minimal exceptions to needing a reservation. Many people assumed that there would be wholesale exceptions for ski teams, day lessons, etc. That is not the case. It’s a good year to be an employee at Alpine Meadows or Palisades, as they get the only blanket exception to making parking reservations. That even includes days where they are not scheduled, which is a great perk that employees deserve. It almost makes me want to apply for a job at the mountain…but then I could not really say whatever I want here.
Update: I guess the elimination of all of the possible exceptions is a very big deal. There is a huge ruckus being raised by ski team parents over reserved parking. Apparently, sometime earlier this summer, families were given the word that parking would be set aside for ski team families. One example of that is in the screen capture below. Exactly who was making those promises is unclear. From talking to a few people, this is not the only time where it was said that ski team families would have an exemption from reservations. That said, I see where Palisades Tahoe has dug themselves into a deep hole where they just dont have enough parking to guarantee spots and still have the ability to offer some space for the general public. I also get the frustration of families not knowing how quickly reservations will go. Anyone that has tried to book a campground reservation or buy a ticket to a popular performers concert knows how quickly these things can go.
One suggestion is that team families could be given “early access” to reservations. The problem is that by hiring an outside firm to manage the reservations, they are somewhat locked into the canned system that Interstate Parking has set up for other mountains. Making individual accommodations for specific mountains may not be available.
• All parking is open and unreserved after 1pm on reservation days.
• There are stiff penalties planned for both violators and “no shows”. In either case, the plan is to assess a $100 violation fee if you park without a reservation, or if you make a reservation and are a “no show” for that reservation. Those violations are being handled by Interstate Parking out of Breckenridge CO. Unpaid violations increase to $200 after 10 days unpaid. There is also a warning of season pass termination for repeat offenders, with no specific details given. Yes, it is an absolute certainty that amateur lawyers of the internet will chime in with opinions on the legality of that. But this is not Interstate Parking’s first rodeo. I imagine the biggest question mark is Chalet Road.
Lingering Questions
I feel like the biggest question out there is how quickly will these reservations go? I think the answer is that nobody knows that. During the Fourth of July test run, I think many were surprised at how reserved parking did not sell out immediately. Only July 4th actually sold out. I am certain that has everything to do with the word “paid”.
I do know that sometimes these reserved events can go very fast. Let’s take a look at one local-ish campground which has become quite popular over the last few years after getting outed by Sunset magazine and SFGate.com. Reservations open for their entire season on March 1st at 8:00am. This year, pretty much every date in every site for the entire season was booked by 8:05am. Game over. Sadly, when you go out there, many of those sites sit empty, as many people just took a rapid shot in the dark to grab any date they could last March 1st. Hopefully the stiff “no show” violation fees will prevent that sort of mindset for skiers and riders at Alpine Meadows and our neighbor to the north. Still, the number of Ikon passes sold in the region far outnumber the number of parking spaces available. I am fearful.
My second question is how much impact will this truly have on traffic and parking this season. Truth be told, when all of the lots at Palisades and Alpine Meadows are filled, there are enough cars on the road to create traffic jams on Highway 89 and around North Lake Tahoe. People will still want to arrive early to avoid having to park in a remote lot at Alpine Meadows, or out past the Cantina at Palisades. People will still be hustling to get there for that powder they saw posted on Insta by the marketing department and various influencers. There were a few days last season where parking lots did completely fill and additional cars were still waiting out on the highway. We might reduce the number of days that happens from a few to none.
On the other hand, there could be more traffic all day. The new secondary traffic flow will be starting around noon as people without reservations make their way to the mountain at 1pm. There is no guarantee that the number of guests arriving will be less than the number of guests that have left the mountain by 1pm. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
Those “Other Options”
So here we are, the Palisades Team has done an admirable job of making this thing work the best it can with the least amount of pain. It’s up to each of us to figure out how to make it best work for ourselves. I’m not sure I even know my own approach just yet.
• It’s not too late for Palisades Tahoe to redirect the marketing it does for the upcoming season. Rather than the breathless and endless powder alerts designed to bring the masses to the mountain no matter how good or bad the conditions may be – it would be far better for that marketing to focus on the things that bring in more money. Selling more bed spaces in the village, more food on the hill, more beer in the bar to the people that show up each weekend. It would be a great place to focus marketing efforts: more money spent per person versus more people.
Update: When it really gets down to it, taking a very restrained approach to marketing during the upcoming season is the real thing that will make a difference. That does not have to result in less profit overall. It’s just a matter of getting people to spend more money when they are at the mountain. Just adding Alpine Meadows logo wear back to Estelle would probably double sales there 🙂
• Several sources have identified that the problem isn’t as much the number of cars that arrive at the mountain, it’s the number of cars that arrive will a single person on board. I am guilty as charged, at least I’ve been doing that in an EV the last three seasons. My wife does not ski every day, and most of my ski buddies ski shorter days than I like. The incentives for carpooling have just been too lackluster forever. “Up close” parking in lot 2 is not enough to make a difference, as I am generally one of the first cars in lot 3. I park in the same place, even when I can park closer. The incentives need to be greater.
One example would be the “RIDE app”, which was developed by Dave Amirault, an independent marketing consultant for various ski resorts. It was introduced at Snowbird in 2019. RIDE is shorthand for “Reduce Individual Driving for the Environment.” The app allowed users to more easily meet up with other users on similar schedules to share rides to the mountain. Each ride shared earned users points for things as simple as a sticker pack or a discount on food. Using the system more frequently could earn you greater rewards such as a logo water bottle or a discounted friends and family lift ticket. These are the sorts of things that would drive many of us to start carpooling on weekends.
Sadly, COVID became a thing in early 2020, just as the RIDE app was gaining traction. The program was put on hiatus due to concerns with ridesharing and the spread of COVID. So there are no numbers to tell us how things would have transpired. That said, anything would be better than current incentives. Just thinking back, in the earliest incarnation of UnofficialAlpine.com, we had an online forum incorporated into the site. One forum category was indeed “ridesharing” and I believe two different shared rides were arranged. It’s all about the incentives!
• Ultimately, the problem is an overselling of passes in the Northern California region. There needs to more mountains available to Ikon passholders in the region, or a reduction in the number of days available to Ikon passholders. I’ve said this a number of times before – there should be a pass available that includes unlimited access to Palisades and Alpine Meadows and the Ikon pass, which provides only limited access. The assumption is always made that somehow, the one mountain only pass would be the more expensive option.
I am here to say it for the first time. The pricing of ski passes is all backwards. It’s time to go back to a time when individual resort passes are the norm, and affordable to the people that want to just ski at that one place. It’s the people that insist that they need access to 42 mountains and 500 lifts scattered across the planet that should paying a huge price for their pass. That’s a whole new blog post that has been rolling around in my head…
There’s a storm on the way for the weekend. It brings rain into Tahoe. Snow will likely only be at the highest elevations of the eastern Sierra. But here we are in both meteorological autumn and “Hallmark Autumn”…about 56 days until ski season.
1. “ Parking employees will scan parked cars to confirm reservations after parking has been completed. ”. What does this mean? When is “parking completed and how is that determined? 12:45? Any earlier and people without a reservation will park at 12:45 and figure they are safe, or will sit in their cars until 1:00 and move if they see an enforcer or scanner approaching.
2. May need a staging area to hold those waiting for 1:00 or else traffic will be blocked.
3. I don’t see how this reduces total number of cars, which is the problem.
Spot on Nick
I’ve got your driveway space when you screw up on Tuesday.
I’m skeptical that a no-show penalty thing will work. “What do you mean I was a no-show? You just didn’t scan my plate because I parked tail-in to the snow bank…” That said, hopefully the threat of a penalty will get people to cancel their reservation (you have until 8am day of).
Here is their problem enforcing noshows. Employees are going to scan license plates in the parking lot, so there are huge windows when you can claim that you used your spot but your license plate was not scanned. I showed up at 730 but left at 9:15am after one run because it was bulletproof. Or, I showed up at 12:45pm, when reserved parking is still enforced but after they were done scanning license plates.
My money says that everyone will overwhelm the free reservations solely for option value and they will not be truly able to police no-shows (unless they check license plates as you pass the post office, which will be a shit show)
And if the free passes sell out instantly, this plan collapses on itself.
My two cents from the bleacher seats.
so what happens if the mountain is closed and you are a no-show? do you still get charged (I hope not). what if the mountain is “open” but all lifts are on wind hold, do I still have to show up to avoid the no-show penalty?
Bye-bye m-f’n Ikon Pass
Love always,
Alpine Meadows Skier since 1977
Best way to enforce no-shows would honestly be an ALPR system set up at chokepoints on the roads. Not sure how well they work in storms, but assuming the answer is “well enough,” such a system would be faaaaaar more efficient than employees walking around scanning plates.
I think you’re probably right here Colin. If it’s employees walking around scanning cars, there’s just way too many possibilities of late arrivals or early departures causing a “no show” when someone was actually there, but left after a couple of runs due to rain, poor conditions, crowds, etc. Interstate Parking is no stranger to parking lot management. They are handling most of the ski areas using reservations. I’m guessing they have figured a lot of this stuff out.
What about snow or ice on license plates? Are Palisades staff going to be scraping plates? I understand this would be illegal, similar to meter maids chalking tires, which is no longer practiced in most places for legal reasons. How does one rely on license plates being visible during storm days?
FYI – I was questioning Chalet Rd as well as had parked there 7/1, (the holiday weekend paid trial run). Anyways the parking committee had no clue and I was the only one there. 7/2 & 7/3 just parked in the lot with no reservation and got away with it. Went to Mammoth on the 4th to avoid the sh*tshow.
Anyways you questioned Chalet Rd and they actually addressed it. Below is their answer to parking there. Looks like they have commandeered that for reservation overflow it looks like.
No. Olympic Valley Road and all associated side streets are managed by Placer County and are subject to the county’s winter parking ordinance which does not allow parking on public roadway from November 1- May 1. Both the county and CHP enforce restrictions on this area, and we are working closely with county officials on messaging and enforcement. We have encroachment permits through the county to park cars with a parking reservation on the following streets: Olympic Valley Rd, Marmot Way, Chalet Rd.
I work in the transportation Dept( not parking). My question that has not been answered is; What is an Alpine lot? Are Deer Park and Hidden Valley remote lots considered sites that need reservations. If the only Alpine lots are directly attached to “the hill ” require advanced planning It can make a difference to people who fail to reserve and we are not parked out. Deer Park and Hidden Valley would still be the true overflow areas for the last resort, until they are booked out.
Deer Park and Hidden Valley are considered “remote lots” for Alpine Meadows and are included for reserved parking. That said, Troy at White Wolf could make some cash selling unreserved spots on weekends.
What would be helpful is if they had some projections of the number of reserved space left at each mountain for a particular date that decrease with each new paid reservation that is made. That way if I wake up on a Tuesday morning and see that only 50 spaces are still available for Saturday, I can just say $%&@ it and do something else.
Also for “no shows”, instead of assessing a fine, cancel all future reservations and block making new reservations for a month or something of that nature. For some people, sucking up and paying a $100 is no big deal, but blocking them from making new reservations might sting.
I am so grateful for your opinions and your articles Mark. My 2 cent old man gripes are:
1. Staff. Palisades already has so few staff that they are not able to open lifts etc on time. It seems to me they are increasing the number of employees needed to park cars. Typically a job that requires you to get there early but then your day is done and you can go ski by 10 or so. Scanning license plates until 1:00 is going to take bodies. Snow day? Transporting employees in from Reno? We all know how that goes. Send me a waaaambulance!!
2. They will need a robust computer system that can handle all the data. License plates will be scanned multiple times to capture early birds and late comers. Scanners that can read snow/mud covered plates? maybe that is no problem, I am not a computer or logistics genius. Not to mention all the spots will be grabbed on Tuesday and then when the storm moves in they will cancel…all the way up to 8:00 am the morning of. So, me and my family (ski team so we are there every weekend…) will need to check the website day after day to see how many spots have opened up. Sucks. Crying a river over here.
3. No more spontaneous “turn into Alpine” mornings. No more “upper mt closed, I’m going to Alpine”? what if one area closes and the other is open? We all know the $64M Gondola isn’t going to get you there. Oops, I didn’t reserve a spot at the right side of the hill kids sorry! No skiing today. Sad face.
Actually, now really curious how 8 am reservation system is going to look on a storm day with upper mt closed and Alpine open….every man/woman for themselves!! No cell phone reception? No chat bot? Sorry sucker!!
4. Incentivizes sleeping in and then clogging up the road at 1:00. This actually might be a positive. Us early birds may still have a window? But now that 7:00 is the new 8:00 I wonder how early I can actually get my kids out of bed??
5. Pre paid mystery weekends? I mean, those are going to go fast…assuming they are the traditional black out days. IN recent years the black out days are arguably less busy. File this one under positives as well?
Here’s a solution that actually would take cars off the road; no car can park in the lot without three people in it, Minimum. If you have four or more you can park in the VIP section way up front. I know that is unrealistic but it would actually help solve what they say they are trying to do (take more cars off the road). Incentivize car pooling!!!
Positives:
1. I really thought this was a money grab. Making it free (except the mystery weekends) is pretty Ok.
2. May bring back hitchhiking?
3. See 4 and 5 above.
No show penalties on storm days with meadows as the only lift? And how do you cancel if the valley loses power? Now suddenly everyone in alpine valley will be vying for spots on the 3 dedicated Alpine mountaineer shuttles… Pls tell me they are adding more vans? Although this would result in putting even more people on the mountain. Plus no mention of teams…. Lots of folks not happy about that; especially since official team communications this summer indicated teams would be included in the parking plan.
There’s definitely a lot of concern about ski team families, as it seems some promises may have been made. Yikes…
What happens for weather related no shows? Am I supposed to show up when they only have green runs at the mountain base, or suffer a $100 fine? I live in Alpine Meadows so I can more easily reach the mountain, but how about folks blocked by road closures in the pass, on alpine meadows road, etc?
A question I have is how is this all going to effect the limited parking at backcountry trailheads. Many friends have been talking about just opting out of PT parking reservation shenanigans on the weekends, and just going backcountry. Dawn patrol or 1 pm patrol maybe necessary as the TBA shuttles don’t run down the west shore all the time, although it does look like it will be many Saturdays this season, and some Sundays.
IKON’t SKI its waaaay too oversold and underdelivered since AMC Always More Crowded took over ownership and operations. Oh and remember how the B2B promotional bs stated by AMC marketing that it would “reduce” traffic !?!
Very well detailed writing on all of these issues including how weekend holidays after 1:00 pm will also add to over capacitized roads.
Sheesh typical corporate dweebs cannot do the proper math, how many actual parking spaces exist at both vs how many passes sold. Yeah go figure, greed greed and more greed always. Glad we got it in the good old days when Alpine was Alpine and Squaw was Squaw.
My hot take: this is a money grab plain and simple.
The only way to reduce the number of folks on the roads is to provide real carpool incentives, massively improve ridership & availability of public transportation, and/or to reduce the number of folks skiing in the resorts (fewer passes, fewer tickets). This plan gets a little more income out of the same group of skiers without adding more services or attractions. Rent-seeking behavior by our local North Shore ski monopoly; a nice boost to Alterra’s bottom line this year while they hide behind this fig leaf of corporate responsibility.
There’s the big emphasis on “free” in the current announcement. But…there’s also no details on how many spaces they are willing to clock out for those willing to pay. The FAQ claims that the profits from parking will go to various agencies and groups that are working on improving traffic and public transportation. None of those groups have made a measurable impact yet.