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It’s Not Just About The Logo At Alpine Meadows

We hear the same argument frequently. It usually starts with someone saying “They can change the logo to anything they want, but it will still be Alpine Meadows.” The same suggestions were made this week when Squaw Valley Ski Holdings announced the naming of the “Pacific Crest Bowls”. While 85% of readers responding to our poll this week did not like the new name scheme, a smaller percentage commented that it did not matter what you named the bowls, the skiing and riding would still be the same.

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While we’ve never believed such statements, there seemed to be some new sentiments today. Squaw Valley released its October edition of Squaw magazine. Here’s the quotes that have been getting the most attention:

“Often overlooked and historically under-marketed, the expansive back bowls of Alpine Meadows offer vast terrain for every type of skier and snowboarder.”

“A lot of people don’t even know these beautiful, wide open bowls exist” says Cara Whitley, Squaw and Alpine’s chief marketing officer, “We wanted to bring to life the fact that the bowls are appropriate for intermediate skiers through experts.”   –Squaw Magazine, October 2014

Undermarketed? Not any more. Sure those runs have been on the maps for years, and people can see the tracks from the Sherwood lift. But never have they been marketed as terrain appropriate for intermediate skiers, which in general, they are not. While intermediates might do fine with a short trek over the Upper Saddle into CB Chute or even Sun Bowl, the terrain past there is hardly wide open bowls, friendly to intermediates.

We could ask “What were they thinking?”, but we already know the answer. These marketing decisions are being made by people that don’t know the mountain, and likely aren’t even skiers, because if they were, they would know that this terrain is not for intermediates. They have not seen the large cornices develop, or the minefield of chunder than can develop when those cornices drop or bowls slide during control work. They haven’t been caught in a line that closes out over a cliff or a wide band of barely covered scree.

What will happen when that dad with a 6 year old “intermediate skier” doesn’t stop before one of those drops, or when someone’s mother takes a slide for life into the Granite Chief Wilderness because she didn’t understand the difference between the snow conditions on the two sides of the ridge? Whether or not a tragedy happens, the “marketing effort” made by Squaw will likely turn the amazing terrain that we know as High Traverse into just another place that gets tracked out in an hour by the overflow traffic from Squaw Valley.

If you don’t believe it, think about how Munchkins was just never the same after articles in Powder and Freeskiers literally opened the floodgates. We’re not the only one’s concerned today, here’s a selection of comments we have seen:

“Who writes this *&%$? “Undermarketed” is the key word. Hey Andy! How about inviting a bunch of intermediate gaper skiers to ski the “often overlooked and undermarketed Keyhole………” We better make room in the parking lot for Care Flight on a daily basis.” -CM

“Can’t wait till I see my first gaper shivering in fear as the winds come over the crest and the snow is blowing then vertigo sets in and they have no idea what way to go and there is a 10′ cornice staring them in the face. This is so awesome… Mark my word that the bowls will be closed a lot more than they are open due to this marketing to intermediate riders.” -CB

“The old locals like my dad are super upset about this.” -BA

“A lot of people don’t even know these beautiful, wide-open bowls exist” Really? all it takes are a pair of eyes to see the tracks from almost anywhere on the mountain to see these epic lines. Thank you for marketing my favorite lines–I really wanted more people to take them from me.” -TB

“Often overlooked and historically under-marketed”… THAT’S THE POINT!!!” -JA

Yes, things will definitely change, especially with the marketing effort to get tourists to buy $699 tours to help them find these “secret stashes”. Yes, that article also appeared in the magazine too.

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But there’s much more to it than the huge marketing push for this “new terrain”.  Several people have been quick to point out that the Alpine Meadows experience has been erased bit by bit since 2011. One reader summarized the changes pretty neatly with this list posted on the Friends Of Alpine Meadows Facebook page:

Why is our skiing experience being diminished?

1. Greatly shortened season and operating hours. 12/12 opening, early closing, no early operation hours in the spring, late starts on normal “storm days”.
2. Not enough lifts operating during peak days (ABC/Yellow)
3. Elimination of special events
4. Nominal mountain improvements
5. No major investment in snowmaking, terrain parks or low snow planning…it is as if they did not learn from the past three years and still hope for a “big year”:.
6. Use of Alpine as “Squaw’s” overflow area
7. Early season focus on Squaw rather than Alpine, which is higher in elevation, has real vert, no downloading and has access to off-piste, even in low-snow.
8. Increase in child ticket prices – opposite direction than we need! If we want a future in this sport, we need to make skiing super affordable for families trying to learn.
9. Major team price increases.
10. Loss of parking to “VIP $$$” spots
11. Increased wind-holds and weather holds that would never have occured in the past.
12. Charging Aspen prices for a “no-frills” ski experience!

-DS

It is painful to watch our ski area being transformed before our very eyes. Many of us have chosen to live here because of Alpine Meadows. We have built our lives and families around skiing our favorite mountain. It’s much more than combining a logo and renaming some bowls. While this might come across as elitist to KSL’s marketing department, it’s the locals and faithful daytrippers that make Alpine Meadows unique. John Riley, Peter Klaussen, and all of the other Alpine Meadows forefathers must be rolling in their graves.

#FreeAlpine

26 thoughts on “It’s Not Just About The Logo At Alpine Meadows”

  1. Didn’t Andy learn anything after his sky diving accident? Now he is going to market Alpine’s best expert terrain to Joe Six Pack…

  2. Out of curiosity, I googled the new Chief Marketing Officer and found this.

    “Squaw Valley Ski Holdings LLC, the parent company of Squaw Valley and Alpine Meadows ski resorts, has hired Cara Whitley as the company’s new chief marketing officer. Whitley will assume responsibility for all of the company’s marketing and sales functions, including brand marketing, advertising, public relations, CRM, loyalty programs, sales efforts and strategic alliances. She has more than 15 years of marketing, strategy and business development experience in travel, financial services and retail-related industries. Most recently, she was vice president, strategy and business development for American Express Co.’s US. loyalty group.”

    No wonder the messaging lately sounds like it is being performed by someone who doesn’t have a clue about sliding on snow.

  3. Well, this is sh!t. Yes, they will get tracked out quicker. I’m not too worried about this, as its the other 20-40 min hikes that make Alpine unique to me. As you suggested though, its the danger in marketing expert terrain to gapers. Maybe an ‘intermediate’ local can handle them, but someone who doesn’t ski much, though considers themselves intermediate, should probably not leave the Roundhouse area. Now they’re going to think this is ok for them. Geez, what a mess.

  4. Thanks for telling the truth about what is actually going on Mark. It angers me to see what has happened to AM. I worked and lived in the valley from 84 to 94 and raised a high school aged daughter there. She also worked on the hill on weekends and holidays. Some of my fondest memories of those days was our own tradition of skiing together on Christmas day. Miss those days, miss my daughter and those great days at AM. It’s a disgrace what KSL has done.

  5. I see some huge liability issues here with regard to the “guides” and snow safety. Are these guides expert in snow mitigation or are they ski school folks w/ no avy training leading these high paying guests to all the secret stashes that are not with out consequences. The patrol is already tapped, more work, no increase in their wages and now this marketing disaster. They are already running sweep out to Grouse late in the day. They will need to increase their staff of pros and pay them what they are worth….saving lives if it slides.

  6. Well said Mark and commenters. This is not a hypothetical risk. I’m aware of two deaths at Alpine when people ended up on the wrong side of the famous Pacific Crest. It is actually the real world up there which is very distant from Ms. Marketing.

  7. I’m no KSL apologist but I think everyone is being a little hysterical over this. 99% of intermediate skiers don’t even think about hiking at resorts. Once the season gets underway Squaw will basically forget about Alpine Meadows (like the last few years) and it’ll be business as usual.

  8. ” Increased wind-holds and weather holds that would never have occured in the past.” <– Lies.
    As a former lift mechanic at this mountain I can tell you this. You do not want to ride Summit in a 65+ mph east wind. Why you ask. Well let me tell you. In any kind of east wind it will stop chairs in the top terminal. Once that happens, you have spacing issues. Those are never fun. Spacing issues = stopped chair. Stopped chair + 60mph winds = cold for you. And we won't even mention chair swing. Danger Will Robinson. Enough of that. I can count the amount of days Squaw upper mountain was closed last year. And you all came to Alpine complaining that Summit was closed.. OK Really? Did you really think the 70+ mph winds over there was not here ? Maybe you should complain to Squaw for closing. really. and you call yourself a local ? I thought you knew this mountain. Or so you claim. Tell you what. Go grab a lift mechanic. ask him to take you to the top of the mtn when it is blowing 70+. Better wear your big boy pants. Riding a snow mo up that hill in white out 70+ mph winds is not fun. Question…. when that lift stops ? Who has to ride up that mtn risking life and limb so you can get off a stopped chair lift? hmmm

    The fact is this. When Squaw closes the upper mtn, how many people do they get to send home and save $$$ on the books? Lift ops, Ski School, Ski Patrol , Lift Maintenance all the upper mtn shops and food stuffs.

    1. We reported here last season that Summit routinely closes at a 50 mph east wind. I believe that comment refers to the days where wind sensors were showing wind speeds of 25-30 and wind holds were placed. At one point on Facebook, Squaw staff suggested that 35 mph winds were the max for lifts to run.

      1. There are two anemometers for Summit. One on the ridge, that is what you get when you look at NOAA and one on Tower 20 of Summit. Mark, you can google it. Go look up the Wind Charts for Dopplemayer, Ctec and Yan lifts. You will find that Both resorts far surpass the RATED winds ratings. I do not have the docs in front of me ATM but when you see what the Manufacturer says is safe conditions and what they regularly run in. You might be blown away. 🙂 No pun intended.

  9. Keep this a grudge match with KSL. The guys at AM bust their ass to make it happen for you. Do not drag Squaw and KSL into this conversation and sully the Alpine Meadows crew. Cuz in the long run, they have to answer to Andy Wirth(less) and his pack of bean counters. Nuff said. You should feel sorry for the AM crew and not be busting their balls.

  10. You think whining and complaining is really cool and Alpine-like…it’s not…it’s lame..how come there are so many posers suddenly willing to decide where people can or can’t ski??? If my Grandmother came to town and wanted a pow run we would head over to boundary bowl because the whole area is simple and straight forward…next run she would look up at Sawtooth and probably want a push off that itty bitty cornice…you want expert terrain in that direction…oh it’s there…and it will be empty this season just like the past ones.
    Skiing at Alpine is about something so far from most comments above, maybe it’s time for UA to move on to some other mountain to complain about!

    1. Really ?? So we are supposed to sit quietly and say nothing when a private equity real estate pirate comes in to take away everything we hold dear ?? I know over a dozen long time employees that basically got shafted when KSL took over ?? I don’t think so.

  11. Low Five Tuscan Chicken

    Stupid locals have scaled down and slowed down KSL’s planned development in Olympic Valley. Hummmmm. Now just to mess with you and cause a diversion KSL is going directly after something sacred. First they cut down on services and increase prices. Then they took away the Alpine Meadows name. Not enough, they’re changing all the bowls to intermediate terrain. I’ll bet they lay a cat track to the top of Estelle this season. They could name it 1982 Bowl? I’m sure they will name some bowl off to the south after Bill Foster (patroller killed in avalanche). Anyway KSL knows you can only fight so much. So, what’s it going to be, fight for Alpine’s identity or Squaw’s future

  12. Alpine has great qualities. People don’t go to the bowls because they can’t hang. If If KSL destroys the real picture which is that patrollers and tourists alike get killed at Squaw and Alpine they will just get more people killed. It is like Andy Wirth’s skydiving experiment.

  13. Pingback: Dear Marketing Department | UnofficialAlpine.com

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