Squaw Valley Ski Holdings CEO Andy Wirth gave an interview to the Tahoe Daily Tribune this week. From Wirth’s standpoint, it was an important opportunity to regain some trust from the public. Wirth has taken the community head-on in opposing the incorporation of Olympic Valley, a move which has many locals talking. SVSH has also had trouble gaining widespread support for the Village at Squaw Valley redevelopment plan. Over the last two days, we’ve heard plenty of of people questioning the veracity of Wirth’s statements to the Tribune regarding Alpine Meadows. Several people wrote and suggested that we publish a link to the article, and give our readers a chance to comment on the article. I noticed this comment on Facebook and it made me laugh, as I know it’s true.
The UnofficialAlpine.com comment sections’ collective heads are currently exploding. – Facebook comment on a link to the TDT article
There’s a couple of comments we would certainly like to hear more about. Wirth was asked about the connection between Squaw Valley and Alpine Meadows. His reply offered no more details than Snowbrain.com’s recent interview with Troy Caldwell.
Now the interesting dialogue turns to when are you going to connect the two. Well, I’m proud to say that’s going to happen sometime in the near future. I can’t divulge how exactly. – Andy Wirth, SVSH CEO
That sure sounds like blowing smoke to me. Wirth may as well have said “We got nothing.”
Wirth also was proud to point out improvements made at both Squaw Valley and Alpine Meadows. In his mind, things have only gotten better since Squaw Valley took over Alpine Meadows in 2011. Many of our readers will dispute that assertion. It’s important to note that many of our non-readers will also dispute that assertion.
I’m prideful in saying we’ve done something that people have been talking about since the 50s — we acquired Alpine Meadows. It was in a distressed situation. We acquired Alpine Meadows, and we’ve enhanced the service levels there. – Andy Wirth, SVSH CEO
Again, there’s not many people that will agree with that statement. Very few meaningful improvements have been made at Alpine Meadows since SVSH took the reigns. Here’s a short summary:
• Minor upgrades to the Alpine’s snowmaking system were made last year to make the system more reliable. These updates were probably significant last season.
• The Chalet was remodeled into something that some people love and some people hate. I did not spend a nickel there last season, which is quite a change from all previous seasons.
• Improvements were made to the employee and coaches’ locker rooms. These changes don’t necessarily affect the skiing public.
• New snowcats were purchased. These investments are difficult to measure as the quality of grooming likely depends more on staffing levels and experience.
Please correct me if I missed anything significant. I know there’s plenty of people that want to see the Hot Wheels upgrade on that list, but it has been consistently put on the back burner by SVSH, along with the Red Dog and Granite Chief upgrades at Squaw Valley.
While Wirth and SVSH did bring us slightly cheaper pass prices, that has not served us well at Alpine Meadows. Lower pass prices have also brought us ridiculous lift lines, expensive day lift tickets, wild increases in costs for children’s lift tickets, team programs and lessons, increased prices for food and beverages, and increased prices for seasonal lockers.
Well, we hope some of you take some time to share your comments. It’s a busy summer for many of us and readership is down while people think about paddle boards, kayaks and bicycles. Thanks for sharing this with your Alpine Meadows friends.
It’s no surprise the Sierra Sun gave Andy a platform for his propaganda, as they Squaw is one of their biggest paid customers. The problem for him (and KSL) is that everyone sees through his smoke screen.
As far as skiing improvements, with the exception of Big Blue, I can’t really say my skiing experience at either Alpine Meadows or Squaw Valley has benefited from the “Renaissance”.
The whole thing is transparent .
They have the plans for the new Hot Wheels chair and probably approvals.
What are they waiting for?
No idea – there isn’t even a guestimated timeframe.
btw, good to see you over here, MDskier. How’s the new house?.
Great summation Mark. I must look up your past posts with a ton of ideas.
Regretfully, KSL keeps on turning ideas on and off like the boy who cried wolf. Goodness, since they’ve been reining, the Russians and Chinese built 2 Olympic events, and KSL hasn’t turned a sod of dirt yet.
I’ve skied at Alpine–and Squaw since I was a 17 year old college student. (50 years ago :)) Liked both for very different reasons. Always said I’d be the first in line for a joint pass. Well, got the pass… cannot see any advantage for Alpine. Families are priced out of day tickets, Lines can be horrendous. Ski school is no longer great. Many outstanding instructors are gone.
Squaw skis differently than Alpine and the result is the Squaw skiiers can make Alpine really, really dangerous. No, it isn’t a place you can just go straight down no turns. Unlike Squaw, there are many crossing trails. Alpine now does a rotten job of skier safety.. very sad and occasionally life threatening. No improvements at Alpine, just bigger crowds. Bottom line: Alpine is kind of ruined. Hate that for my grandkids…my kids got to ski there when things were good. KSL has done nothing but trash the Alpine ski experience. Mother Nature and drought hasn’t been kind to either Squaw or Alpine, either. Can’t blame that on KSL.
Great post Carol.
Rope tow to the water slide….weeeeee!!
Andy Wirth, what would Tahoe do without you?
We are all so thankful your renaissance has bettered our ski areas and how you are paying to bring the community together to support your waterslide park. Seriously, you are so amazing, you even found the secret fountain of youth in the valley. How do you do it? I would love to be at the meeting Monday to hear your golden voice spread more love to “your SOV’ community. I wonder where the drop zone landing pad is going to be in the village, next to Rocker? I love the way you told the locals that your second home owners should be able to vote on projects too. After a while the scum rises to the top, and you sir, are clearly on the top of your game! K$L do us and your stockholders a favor and just move on down the hill to the Bay Area, where they will drool all over your Italian leather shoes. Squaw will survive without a Mega village. And Alpine will only survive when K$L will free them of their constraints. Phew….Time for a fire sale?
Sorry to Raptor Lover…We edited this comment to tone it down just a notch.
Even if they were connected the chair would only run on Saturdays…… All other days would be on a money, I mean a wind hold……
Saturday lift lines are just amazing! KSL.. Keep Standing in Line………………….
Andy’s true calling is in politics. He is far too polished and full of s**t to be on charge of ski resorts.
Please, quick, cut the umbilical cord, the baby looks blue! #FreeAlpine.
Is UA drivel, I see someone from sov’s advertorials post on farcebook.
Off hand,
1. I think more people click on UA everyday ….a stark contrast to the number who read junked letterbox brochures
2. I’d guess that a lot of squaw’s passholders read UA. That’s a lot of people who read drivel,
3. 50 of 350 respondents held passes for 20 years, some held passes when Sov’s people were in short pants
4. Readers don’t agree on everything, just as John “Coyote” and Roadrunner.
5. UA’s coverage on all things – weather, parties, hoedowns, management issues etc etc – are great journalism.
6. Sierra Sun’s poll recorded 95% of 11,000saying ‘no’
7. Gaffney’s letter in the SS had about 10,000 views
8. Letters to the editors had thousands of hits
9. more people go to town meeting than Sov’s meeting of 28 people
8. And it’s free: it doesn’t cost $183,000.
Here’s the survey results from 350 people with very diverse views. That’s not a bad response and I think UA’s readership welcome the balanced reporting.
This post is going to be long, so go grab a cup of coffee, preferably from Al’s Coffee, and enjoy the read.
1. How many years have you been a season pass holder at Alpine Meadows?
For our survey, the average length of years with a pass was 9.6 years, with a range of 1 to 43 years. Roughly 50 of the respondents have been pass holders for more than 20 years. The official survey from KSL only went to 6 years, missing the fact that Alpine Meadows skiers are very loyal to the brand.
2. How many season passes does your family purchase annually at Alpine Meadows?
The average number of passes purchased was 2.3, with most answers being in the range of 1 to 4. The most frequent response was 1 and 2.
3. What is the average number of days a year you use your season pass at Alpine Meadows?
The average was 37 days, but this was skewed by quite a few people that put in a lot of days, as in 100+. The most frequent response was 20 days. This is significantly above the industry average, especially for passes that can pay for themselves in 7 days. This is probably a reflection more on the type of reader we attract as much as a function of the type of skiers and riders that come to Alpine Meadows.
4. Which pass situation do you prefer?
45% of respondents want fully combined season passes at SquAlpine. 38% said they would like to see separate passes with limited vouchers for the other side. Only 17% of people chose separate passes for the mountain. There is some solace in knowing that the 55% of the total respondents would like to see some form of separation. One item of interest is that by and large, many, but not all, of the people selecting combined passes had been a pass holder for three years or less. Longtime pass holders were more likely to choose separate passes.
5. It’s a reasonable assumption that cheaper pass prices will cause more passes to be sold, potentially increasing traffic on the mountain. Making passes more expensive would mean fewer sales, and fewer people on the mountain. Which do you prefer, in broad terms?
The total votes came out roughly even on this one. Several comments pointed out that crowds are not a problem on either mountain for most of the season when the mountains are fully operated to the extent that snow allows.
6. What is your status? (as in residential location)
The number one choice was full time Truckee/Tahoe resident, at 47%, followed by second home owner at 20%, and ski leaser at 14%. Alpine Meadows has always been known as “the locals’ mountain.” We can at least say that our readership reflects that.
7. When you choose to purchase a season pass for a mountain, what are your top 5 considerations?
This was the money question, as in the most interesting question of them all, and there were a lot of choices given. Here were the top 5 responses:
• The variety of terrain 68%
• Maximum operation of the mountain 50%
• Length of season 48%
• Pass pricing 48%
• More advanced or expert terrain 47%
Here’s the five least popular options:
• Additional activities like tubing and snowmobiling 0.4%
• Additional dining and shopping experiences on the mountain 0.4%
• Pass perks that are not related to snow sports 0.4%
• More beginner terrain 0.4%
• Mountain that has “celebrity” appeal 0%
Clearly, there is a disconnect between the way that KSL markets Alpine Meadows, compared to the way many of us think. We’ve been saying that for quite some time. Companies that are in the real estate and golf business may not be the best at operation of mountain resorts.
8. What activities would you like to see continue or return to Alpine Meadows?
The top five responses were, in order: Rahlve’s Banzai Tour, Spring Sun Deck Music Series, Mountain top pass holder BBQ, High Fives TRAINS, and the Mad Cow Downhill.
9. Which changes would you most want to see at Alpine Meadows?
I was pretty happy to see the results for this question. Here’s the top three responses:
• Sell off Alpine Meadows to allow it to survive as an independent mountain #freealpine 41%
• Upgrade and realign the Hot Wheels chair 38%
• Add an interconnect lift to the top of KT-22 34%
The least popular option was to add more comfort areas and plush lockers, weighing in 0.7%.
10. Do you have a seasonal locker at Alpine?
82% of people said they have no desire for a locker at Alpine Meadows, or that they were too expensive. It seems like it was not long ago that the wait list for lockers at Alpine Meadows was like 7 years long! Something has changed…
11. How often do you utilize the Free Alpine/Squaw Shuttle?
A whopping 69% of survey respondents reported riding the shuttle 0% of their days. There were frequent comments as to the shuttle being a waste of money, or just being a vehicle for shuttling teams from one mountain to the other.
12. If nothing at all were changed about the season pass or mountain operations, what’s the likelihood you will purchase your season pass at Alpine Meadows next season (assuming that we were to expect normal snowfall)?
Only 40% of respondents said they were 100% sure they would come back next season. That number is alarming and should be a wake up call to mountain managers, bean counters and shareholders. KSL has done a lot to disenfranchise people this season. How long will Alpine Meadows continue to thrive when loyalty to the mountain is in a downhill slide?
13. If you chose to not renew your pass at Alpine Meadows, which would be the number one factor leading to the decision?
The top three regular responses to this question come as no surprise. Here they are:
• The season has become shorter 20%
• Alpine Meadows has become overcrowded 19%
• Alpine Meadows has lost its mojo 16%
The number one response was “Other”, with a lot of comments filled in. None were very complementary of KSL. Many recognized that Alpine Meadows management seemed to recognize problems, but that KSL was destroying Alpine Meadows. Several comments pointed out that no matter how bad things were, they would still ski and ride at Alpine Meadows. We printed several comments from this question last weekend.
14. If you ever stopped buying an Alpine Meadows pass, where would you be most likely to buy a pass?
There were no surprises here, we’ve been hearing the same thing in the locker room, on the lifts, and at several online forums. The number one choice for people to have a pass instead of Alpine Meadows is Sugar Bowl, chosen by 44% of respondents. In many ways the mountains are a lot alike, so it’s easy to see the attraction. In an odd twist of fate, people that choose to leave for Sugar Bowl will still be able to come back and ski at their old home mountain at Alpine Meadows 4 days per year, courtesy of KSL. I am not surprised that the EPIC Pass came in a distant second at 19% of the votes. The Vail Resorts offer a very different experience, except for Kirkwood, which is on the other side of the planet.
15. If you want to win the prize, you’ll need to provide a real email address. If you win, you agree to allow us to use your real name as we announce the winner on UnofficialAlpine.com.
The winner of the $51 gift certificate from the Truckee Sports Exchange is Eric Yates. Congrats Eric and thanks for being a part of the Unofficial community.
As promised, we are making the raw data from the results available to all interested parties. The only thing we have done is remove the email addresses. This general report does not include the comments filled in on several questions, as SurveyGizmo does not include that in the base reports. You can download the UnofficialSurvey here. We will be collating the best of the comments and providing them in a separate post sometime in the future.
Thanks to everyone that shared their ideas. We hope some people learn something.
The ski business has become more sophisticated, yet it is still a fun business. The industry is trying to veer toward making skiing part of an afterthought, but I don’t believe in that. Skiing is still the reason we come. Though you have to supplement the ski experience by nice amenities, the amenities are just frosting on the cake.
– Nick Badami, Owner of Alpine Meadows, 1970-1994
“Their heads are exploding” one of the SOV people said. Hmmm, I think silly Sov’s massive brain fahts blew more holes in their objectives than anyone else could dream of.
To be fair, many of the issues at Alpine last year (overcrowding, Squaw Ski Teams etc..) were due to the lack of snow. I do not blame KSL for that at all. Squaw was awful last winter – its slopes need more snow than Alpine and much of their terrain was not open most of the winter. I’ve always skied a number of days at both and last year was all Alpine for me. Though Alpine’s conditions were not great, they were far far better than Squaw.
The picture above with the long lines shows how little snow there is – look at the brush sticking out on the left. I don’t blame the Squaw folks for heading over to Alpine when they had nothing open – that’s what any die hard skier would do. Most of my “Squaw Buddies” would far rather be at Squaw. Nobody signs up for a Squaw ski team so they can ride the shuttle to Alpine. It was a tough year for all Tahoe skiers.
A big snow year will solve a lot of problems.
So would an end to joint passes/tickets for SquAlpine 😉
Dunno if it affects the 40% drop in flights, but some travel agents just asked a court to break up the AirTran/Sthwest Airlines tie up.
At least with Andy staying on top of things like that – he reads UA -, its better to be forewarned.