The Squaw Valley Property Owners Association hosted a presentation Saturday that gave the public a chance to find out more about the new vision for the Squaw Valley Village. Presentations were given by Squaw CEO Andy Wirth (via video), Squaw VP Chevis Hosea, and Placer County Planner Alex Fisch. Unfortunately for me, the presentation conflicted with my hockey game over on Mount Rose.
So instead, I asked some long time UnofficialAlpine.com readers to write an article as a guest author. This actually made fantastic sense, as I neither live or work in Olympic Valley. I actually have not even skied at Squaw Valley this year, unless you count the new backside addition.
We had two responses, as well as one long comment that was sent before we could even post an article. As we keep saying, more information is better. That is the point of this blog. If you have a different opinion or spin, send it our way and we’ll publish that too. Or feel free to just add your comments to this post.
– Mark, UnofficalAlpine.com
“We Listened, We’re Ready” Trip Report by UA Guest Writer Peter Long
Along with about 150 other people, I attended KSL’s official presentation of their revised village plan. On top of each seat was a Squaw Magazine and large, printed envelope with a fancy brochure that included a tear off “join and support” return envelope and note from Andy Wirth. The host of the evening, Sally Brew, President of the Squaw Valley Property Owners Association welcomed everyone and gave an overview of the evening.
Then a recorded video from CEO Andy Wirth was played (he was not able to attend due to a previous business engagement). It began with him thanking everyone for their well wishes and support during his injury and recovery from his sky diving accident. He went on to say that the new plan includes a vision that “respects the mountains, preserves the legacy and looks towards the future.” He spoke of Squaw’s environmental achievements such as reducing their carbon footprint by 15%, increasing regional transportation and their recycling and composting program. He said he whole heartedly backed this plan and felt it was the right fit for Squaw Valley. He closed by asking to “join us in a collaborative effort”.
Next up was Chevis Hosea, VP of Real Estate Development, who gave an overview leading up to this point. In Sept, 2011, KSL initiated the development process by submitting a pre application. In April 2012, a formal application was submitted for 3,400 bedrooms. At the end of 2012, a new proposal was submitted with 2,200 bedrooms. In July, 2013, after hearing a lot of feedback, they stopped and entered into a 5 month “reflective period”. Chevis stated they held over 300 meetings and received over 5,000 comments. They processed those comments and then “took out the scalpel”. As a result, the latest version eliminated 700 bedrooms, now down to 1,493 new bedroom. They kept some day skier parking uncovered and wanted to send a message that “we love you day skiers”. They are going to keep the Members Locker Room and he joked that the community “had helped KSL to learn to appreciate that building”. The proposed new water park, now called a Mountain Adventure Center (MAC), has been reduced to 90,000 square feet and will have a wide range of activities keeping with the “soul of the mountain”, including a jump for athletes to practice their air tricks. He stated that in order to compete with Vail and Whistler, Squaw needs a “wet amenity” and that they expect about 300,000 annual visitors to the MAC.
Next up was Alex Fisch, who is a planner with Placer County, who gave us a high level of the specific plan. He said they were 16 months into the EIR proves. As a result of the revisions, a revised Notice of Preparation (NOP) is expected later this winter or early in the spring. The draft EIR is expected in Fall or Winter of 2014, and a 45 day public commenting period will follow. After that, it would go to the board of supervisors for a vote.
Moderator Jim Porter than took questions from the audience. Questions ranged from traffic questions to what perpetuity means, to need versus real estate greed, to what is the difference between a conceptually plan and a specific plan.
My favorite question was by a long time second homeowner who asked “What were the benefits of a new village for me.” Chevis responded, “When we start selling real estate at $1,100 per square foot, your property values will go through the roof.” The 2nd home owners said, “That doesn’t matter to be me, I will be dead before my house is sold”.
From my perspective, “We Listened. We’re Ready” was a well-executed presentation, complete with interactive video and lots of cool buzz words. They certain admitted to learning a lot from the community, which we should all celebrate as a victory.
But is it enough? I still have major concerns about the water supply, 20+ years of construction, 1,500 more bedrooms with expanding terrain and time shares in Shirley Canyon. In many ways, now that the revisions have been submitted, the process has just started. I encourage my fellow residents to get involved, visit the model, ask questions and judge for your selves what you think is best for the future of Squaw Valley.
Peter Long is a long time skier living in North Lake Tahoe. He enjoys long walks on the beach and skiing KT on storm days.
And Another Report On The Meeting From UA Guest Writer Valleygirl
Dear UA,
With an audience of about 125 and plenty of vacant seats, KSL presented their new updated plan for the Village Development at O.V. L. last night. The mediator reminded the audience to be polite with their questions towards Hosea Chevis and Alex Ficsh, and refrain from any questions about IOV or any concerning mountain operations (as Andy wasn’t present.)
“Is this real estate need or greed?”- Public comment
But within moments he was, as KSL played a short video from Mr. Wirth, who thanked the crowd for their support after his accident and informed audience that he values collaboration. The mantra: Respect the Mountain, Preserve the Legacy and Looking to the Future.
Chevis acknowledged that there has been a “wealth of information” that has been considered in the revised plan and based on the “formula” of “bedrooms verses skiable acres” Squaw is lacking a profitable ratio. Think Vail and Whistler people! The revisions eliminate 700 rooms and KSL wants to retain the “Day Skier Experience” by not developing a large portion of the parking lot that otherwise would have 244 rooms, and to preserve the “Tailgating Experience” and also improve parking lot lighting.
“We need a wet amenity” – Chevis Hosea, KSL VP
Grand Camp which is now termed “Mountain Adventure Center” and would comprise of a 90,000 square foot structure that would welcome a projected 300,000 visitors annually. The plans showed a water ramp for aerial training, swimmers and loungers on a radiant pool deck, along with paddleboards and kayaks floating down a “lazy river.” Mr. Wirth clearly stated this is not a “water park” so they call it a “Wet Amenity.” It sounds like something you can get at the Icebar to me! When specifically asked about an ice rink that was in a slideshow but not featured in the Master plan KSL had no comment and then the next question was invited.
Employee housing with a 1000 car park and a shipping and receiving center would be located on Lot #4, which is across from the fire department, down valley. Chevis stated that propane storage would be relocated there, underground, and he hoped the long term solution would be natural gas and that there were talks in progress with Amerigas.
The snow storage question was deferred as that lot now stores the snow from the main parking lots.
With questions posed about traffic congestion and lane changes KSL stated they are into an 8 month Traffic Study project and in 60-90 days there will be recommendations available. When asked by a local gent “Why can’t you work within the current zoning laws?” the mediator deferred and I heard no official response.
I also got a hint that the White Wolf connection project is on hold until KSL gets approval with this expansion project.
It felt like a winning moment when the audience applauded after hearing that the Member Locker Room and Olympic House would be preserved.
Lastly, the question came around to water. “With a drought in effect, can this project be viable?” The answer is “UNKNOWN” but KSL was quick to point to Mike Geary, the manager for the SVPSD, and stated, “He’s the Man, talk with Mike.” With that, the meeting concluded.
After listening to Alex Fisch of Placer County Planning Department explain the bureaucratic process that has begun, I was left hoping that the vision for this valley, village, community and home (as I know it) can evolve into something that is acceptable and sustainable for the future generations. There seems to be a lot of unanswered questions still, what do you think?
Submitted by Valleygirl, a resident of Squaw Valley and long time reader at UnofficialAlpine.com
Here are some notes about my feelings from the presentation and also from chitchat afterwards.
1. About 125 came, and two-thirds of the chairs were empty. A lot left early as, I think, most things were covered in the media and maybe people already decided if the Plan was ok or too big or whatever. The bar was free afterwards and the set price dinner at Grahams was as excellent as always;
2. KSL’s Chevis Hosea was the main speaker. The SVPSD’s Mike Geary and Placer’s Alex Fitsch were there, also Troy, IOV’s Peter Schweitzer and Fred and James Schectman, Friends of Squaw and people from Sierra Watch. A local lawyer moderated.
3. Andy Wirth spoke via a big screen and he looked thin. As we’re aware, he’s had 21 operations after the crash so he looked pretty good.
4. Every chair had a Squaw Magazine and the glossy brochure on it
5. No questions were allowed about forming a town, The water issues and drought is scarying people
6. People are glad that ‘secrets’ were written up in the media.
7. The gas, power, cable and pipe sounds like its coming no matter what.
8. Propane will be underground until the natural gas pipe comes.
9. Savvy locals were surprised by what’s going on. I’m surprised that UA’s readers know so much ;
10. KSL think they solved most issues we’ve read about.
11. KSL ran high end golf clubs (which might explain a lot of the disenchantment with locals across the social spectrum).
12. KSL can’t quite get their head around the club concept we’re hearing about.
13. KSL can’t quite see why the beancounter mentality in running resorts is, I think, behind anger with local voters in the valley and in Placer.
14. KSL has listened, paid attention to comments, and they believe they have solved most of the community’s issues.
15. Reps from some local groups – with large numbers of followers on social media – asked questions but the responses seemed glossed over;
16. I felt that KSL and some groups aren’t talking to each other. Does anyone have Henry Kissinger’s number?
17. KSL has facts and figures but people want to see more than an artist impressions of ski jumps and kayakers on a ‘lazy indoor river’
18. People want to see, from street level, how the buildings and views will look in real life.
19. One homeowner was delighted his view was only obstructed by a 3 story condo block with a very nice setback from the boundary. Both condo owners and homeowners will be separated by the trees and landscaping. He thinks KSL and their lawyers listen to sensible people.
20. A short email was sent by a homeowner to other homeowners to the effect that taxes must rise under a town. However people from the Bay did maths based on Bay Area properties and they didn’t know as much about the town’s budget as others;
21. Apparently the e-mail also does not point out that water authorities and utilities and homeowner associations can raise money without a vote from locals;
22. KSL is keen to keep the daytrippers and is very happy with the tailgate party culture. They’re learning aren’t they?
23. The so-called waterpark will be combined with ski training facilities into a bubbling pool for training, for example, aerials.
24. there is still considerable opposition to a 90,000 ft.² training facility/pool from people who claim they would not use it anyway;
25. KSL anticipates that 300,000 visitors would be attracted each year by the water facility with climbing facilities in the rafters and a ski jump into water and a lazy river or kayaking and similar activities. Kids dropping from the roof sounds fun unless they land on someone below. That 300,000 figure was questioned afterwards by someone who thought that six well-known resorts estimated they would attract 300,000 visitors in total – i.e. <50,000 each on average – to their mountain top dry tubing park and zip lines etc which would cost $25,000,000 over the six resorts to install for an average of just over $1,000,000 per resort a year in additional revenue. If KSL can do better, good luck to them, but locals think that’s too much traffic. Poor KSL can’t win: the facility is either too successful or it’s a white elephant.
26. There were concerns about extra traffic;
27. Hypocritical claims were made about the environment given the huge amount of water, noise, pollution and number of trees to be cut down;
28. KSL estimated there would be something like 2000 construction jobs. There were concerns about the number of potential minimum wage jobs for locals particularly as the drought is caught everyone by surprise, and the drought only seems to be getting worse.
29. KSL did not elaborate on the club concept which, some believe, is a tax-exempt business operation for food and beverage, lodging and perhaps even ski lift revenue. Normal businesses like restaurants might be upset if they are competing against resort-operated businesses that are tax-exempt.
30. there might be some confusion over an area numbered four with the employee housing area that also seems to be numbered four.
31. propane gas will be underground (below the employee housing/parking?)
32. the employee housing/parking lot is on two levels, will hold 1000 cars and 250 employees, be served by the shuttle, and have a shipping dock
33. the shipping dock is of concern to neighbours in a hoa over the road
34. that parking lot/employee housing area is on flat land and will back very close to neighbours and the Creek
35. it seems as if glossy brochures and artist sketches have not addressed concerns
36. a number of attendees want to see three-dimensional diagrams as well as illustrations that show views from ground level from various points, and wish to see Shadow diagrams that illustrate lighting during the course of the day
37. there were concerns about 20 to 25 years worth of construction noise.
38. A local authority figure confirmed that a neighbouring resort continued construction during the night, much to the annoyance of those who could hear the noise. Some think that a performance bond and/or other penalty should be imposed to keep the construction workers in check.
39. KSL made the point that they have dramatically decreased the number of bedrooms they could legitimately seek from 4000 to about 1500.
40. it was disappointing that some attendees are only just coming up to speed on details which are in the specific plan.
41. One well-known identity and local landowner only learned a fornignht ago what an “IOV was” .
42. KSL seem to be battling assumptions made by people in the Valley.
43. someone noticed a southern accent in one of the presenters;
44. sounds as if White Wolf's lift is tied somehow to KSL getting this development through
45. a glint in the eye about water indicated something is up
46. it sounds like the 8 mile pipe and gas power and cable have been under discussion for quite some time
47. rooftop snow will be used to top UP aquifers, as we read somewhere.
48. there still seems the problem in snow farming and storing dirty snow.
49. There is no proposal for a purification plant from which purified snowmelt can pass into the aquifer. Nor is there a proposal for above ground or underground storage tanks for purified recycled water.
50. There are many cynics who harbour strong views about KSL going back to its original acquisition, it is loss of good employees over the years, and its employment of South American internationals whilst local employees suffer cuts to rosters. It definitely needs execs with soul.
These a just a collection of thoughts, feelings and observations that your reporters probably know about. I think we live in interesting times.
Mark,
Nice summary of the meet. I believe Mr. Wirth was enjoying himself in Jackson Hole, thus the vid.
I think the concept of the Wet Amenity is quite flawed. Acrobatic Ski training can already be had at Woodward, no?
Indoor climbing apparatus, please, not needed here, great winter climbing this year, and this concept is already overdone via cruise lines and is not successful. THey are reaching on this one.
20-25 years of construction, WOW, what is the carbon footprint of that? Has to be estimated and disclosed in the EIR.
Seems like there was no discussion on the use of renewable energy sources and decreasing the dependence on fossil fuels, short and long term as required by the CEQA appendix F pertaining to development in CA Historic Registered places. SV is no 724 ‘Pioneer Ski Area’ Placer County Historical Sites.
Some positives would be the ‘daylighting’ of squaw creek under their plans of restoration. Other is the day use which is basically mandated by the Historical Designation, making Squaw accessible to all and the preservation of the members locker room, a historical building from the Olympics.
Everyone should keep becoming more informed and more involved and perhaps we can reach a decent compromise we all can live by.
Remember, Mr. Wirth is a pro sales and marketing guy from the old Intrawest company that built the 1st phase and then bailed. Not involved as he was as Steamboat at the time, but coming up from their ranks and becoming involved with a company like Kolhberg Kravis (KKR) and Roberts, the K in KSL and their business model says a lot of who they really are no matter what they say in public forums.
Nice work.
All fine and well…But do these expansions improve the economy of the North lake area or further siphon money from us?
Will KSL start a hire locals first policy or will these jobs be off-shored to J1s and far away firms with zero local ties?
Will KSL develop Alpine as a unique destination or simply merge it into the Squaw complex as a bastard step-son?
Bottom line – Does this expansion help local property/business owners or further take money away form the community and into the pockets of shareholders with ZERO concern or involvement with tahoe?
I think it’s a great idea. btw, What’s deed restricted employee housing? Is it like rent controlled housing? And why can’t KSL make a presentation that’s more than a bit of generalized fluff? And why can’t they debate the IOV people’s questions instead of glossing over them. We don’t need a ‘moderator’ we need a MMA referee who can adjudicate a no holds barred open and frank dialogue. Let the people be the Judge!
I notice KSL didn’t say they have figures that show there’s a kerzillion gallons of water for all the development in the valley, eg the 230 house approvals, the 8 at the Stables, etc. Why didn’t they say the roof melt is X zillion gallons or the 8 mile pipe is ample top a year of Y acre feet a year?
Imagine if they said they adopted policies like Locals Get First Bite of the Cherry in tendering and job placement.
Imagine if they said the employee housing is free if they reduce your hours by X% due to, say, drought?
Imagine if, instead of saying your property will increase when they build at $1100 per sq ft they said “And your town will be more viable than the town predicted?”
Imagine if they used their influence to get Placer to spend that $697,000 on advertising local businesses, or ran a foundation for local kids.
Imagine if they actually answered questions from the town folk. I for one would like to know if the pro-town people are worth supporting.
Imagine if they had assurances from gas and similar companies that we could keep propane if we want to.
Imagine if they had 3D drawings of street-scapes, ice rinks and water amenities instead of a picture that shows a ski jumper about to land on a kayaker?
Imagine if they ran scenarios past the town like “Imagine you’re a tourist who lands at Reno Tahoe and you just need a car for short trips. And we have resort cars you can borrow” tc etc. “Imagine you live opposite the Storage Area and trucks pull in at 3am, 4am and go ‘beepbeep beep’ outside your bedroom window near the Tavern. Imagine you’re an employee and you can’t sleep and then you forget to fix the chairlift due to sleep deprivation …” etc. Well the answr is we’ll do this and that.
I wonder if these guys ever caught a bus or slept next to a truck docking station?
Found this:
Whistler Vacation Club at Twin Peaks Timeshare Canada Charity item
Free Closing & Usage Annual 2 bed 2 bath 1-52 Float
From Canada
Time left: 15h leftTuesday, 5AM
$79.50
14 bids”
Mark, how do they make money when condos at snowy Whistler sell a week’s lodging for $79.50 each?
This ‘answer’ is weird. “Lastly, the question came around to water. “With a drought in effect, can this project be viable?” The answer is “UNKNOWN” but KSL was quick to point to Mike Geary, the manager for the SVPSD, and stated, “He’s the Man, talk with Mike.”
Unknown? Who plans a billion (?) dollar development without knowing its viable and without knowing it has water?
Do you think they realised ‘oh bugger’ and then went around and said ‘can we have an 8 mile pipe please’?
I’d also like to know how far a town can go with conditions and bonds to hold a developer to his word.
Shame they didn’t host a Q&A with the town people at the same time btw. That way we could be the Judge.
The mod should’ve compelled answers out of them.
Still can’t figure out why people want to keep the members locker room and that other old, ugly building. Did anyone remind chevis about the big wet amenity six miles south? And wtf is a snow beach? Anyone else agree that there should be a better term for this than”village”? To me, a village is a place where people live and conduct their daily business.
OMG if people actually went to Lake Tahoe they may accidentally spend money in Tahoe City and not at a KSL property!
SV/KSL helped a place on north lake fill to a 98% occupancy and the $39 per person deal on the north lake ain’t bad for the budgeter. They also tried that free bus scheme that amalgamated Tart and nightrider and shuttles for the northshore lodgers. (I’m surprised KSL hides some of its light under a bushell. Are their execs on the ball?)
SV’s fb page claims 4 of the Sochi team are Squawites but what about the Alpine-grown Winter Olympic athlete?
http://t.co/u3HvphWUay
It is a ski-accessible area with bars and cafes a la Heavenly’s snow beach. (I’d be worried if I ran a shop especially if there were attempts to stop a shop selling alcohol near the snow beach). I hope the tenants have good lawyers who are pro-active).
A HOA today manager thought KSL adopted an idea I read on UA about housing the medivac/medical centre there as would be required by simple common sense (and the IOC).
I can’t imagine that hordes threatened to chain themselves to the members locker room unless it was saved. More likely KSL didn’t explain the “wet amenity/members locker’ facility or explain the wet amenity is or is not an Exclusive facility for the 1% members. Or was it supposed to be for the 1% only? I half wonder if their whitewash answers are because they don’t know what they’re doing or don’t know how to explain things.
I heard guys on the Funi say that KSL want to meet certain stakeholders but they’re all like wallflowers at the prom.
http://www.moonshineink.com/comment/25462#comment-25462 is another letter in Moonshine Ink that warns businesses about developers trapping customers in the resort. Who would want to live in a place where every shop and diner and bar is a corporate hardnosed employer who retrenches people en masse?
Ancedotal discussions, and the reduction of attendances at meetings, indicate the IOV aren’t seen as vitally necessary anymore. Have people forgotten how Placer looked ready to rubber-stamp the first mega plan? Yep, Voters have short memories.