We’re a couple of years into this merger of Alpine Meadows and Squaw Valley, and there’s a lot of varied opinions out there about whether or not that’s a good thing or a bad thing. Regular readers know that we are not in the camp of people that are completely enamored with the way things have transpired. A number of people must have seen our new stickers proclaiming “Free Alpine” out in the wild, as our search logs show that a lot of people have been looking for one of their own.
So what does “Free Alpine” really mean? Read on and we have some ideas.
When the merger was announced, back in 2011, it was reported that it was important that each of the resorts maintain its own identity. Here’s what Andy Wirth told the Huffington Post in September of 2011:
As we move forward with consolidating our operations, we want you to know that what’s going to remain the same is as important as what’s going to change: We think the key to the success of the consolidation is our fervent commitment to maintain each resort’s distinctive character. People, terrain, activities, all come together to give a resort its individual character, and that’s what we’re committed to retaining.
– Andy Wirth
That was some smart thinking. Alpine Meadows and Squaw Valley are both amazing mountains. They offer some of Tahoe’s best terrain, best snow, and a ton of variety. Each has a passionate community of skiers and boarders that think the most of “their mountain.” It’s probably also true that each mountain does contain “the soul of skiing”, except that the definition of soul is completely different at each mountain.
There’s a reason people have been driving 3 miles further to Alpine Meadows for more than 50 years. We purposefully drive past Squaw Valley, past the beckoning Olympic flame and rings. We choose to tackle Alpine Meadows road, even though it is steep, frequently icy and subject to morning closures for avi control. We’ve been drawn to something that is different. For some of us it’s the mountain; for some it’s that Alpine Meadows has historically been more affordable for families; for some it’s the people and persona that make Alpine Meadows. Regardless of the reasons, there’s generations of families that have chosen the Alpine Meadows experience instead of the Squaw Valley experience.
We know that there are people that love both mountains and rejoice in the merger. The fact is, the ability to ski both mountains has always been there. There was a time when season passes were crazy expensive, but day tickets were relatively cheap. In those days, it was easy to choose to go to the “other side” for a day or two. With our current system of crazy cheap season passes and crazy expensive day passes, we’re a bit more locked into one mountain.
One common thing I hear around the mountain is that “it’s a done deal” and that people just need to accept change. Our country would certainly be a different place if we all lived by this mantra. I don’t believe that it is too late for SVSH to remember all of those bold statements made back in September of 2011 about keeping a separate identity for each mountain.
We honestly don’t care who owns the mountain. So the concept of “Free Alpine” doesn’t really mean that we can’t be a part of Squaw Valley Ski Holdings. it just means there’s some things that could happen to keep Alpine Meadows as Alpine Meadows, and not the “backside of Squaw”.
• Pass prices are down but day ticket prices are way up for Alpine Meadows. Because we have access to the huge number of lifts at Squaw Valley, we have to pay for that, whether we want to use them or not. We have created a place where entire families can no longer afford to ski or ride at Alpine Meadows, unless they commit to a pass. We no longer can invite a friend to come over for a day from another resort (yeah, those 2 family and friends tickets recently offered…that will go real far!). Our extended families that come for the holidays? No, they can’t afford to go to Alpine Meadows for a day or two either. Alpine Meadows has always been the place to offer a relative bargain ticket compared to Squaw Valley. You could get similar terrain, without all of the bells and whistles, at an affordable price. It’s time to bring back separate tickets for Alpine Meadows and Squaw Valley.
• The same holds true for season passes. It’s time to re-introduce separate passes for the mountain, that offer just a limited number of days to visit the other side of the mountain. The combined season pass makes it far too easy to justify operating only one mountain at a time. There’s been enough people that love sliding on snow to operate both mountains since 1961. The competition for the skier dollar between Alpine Meadows and Squaw Valley for most of the last 50 years has benefited us as the consumer. The lack of competition that currently exists hurts not only us, but the future of winter sports.
• If we want mountains that have an individual identity, they need their own managers and staff. Alpine Meadows has lost a lot of key mid-managers, and more and more employees report to someone in an office at Squaw Valley. Decisions are made by people that have no idea what has made Alpine Meadows a different experience than Squaw Valley. Surely a lot of this “streamlining” makes sense to the bean counters in accounting – but it destroys the individuality of each mountain.
• We are pricing people out of the sport at SquAlpine. Not only have prices for day tickets increased dramatically, the cost of spending a day at the resort has grown faster than the rate that people’s paychecks are growing. Over the last two years, prices for ski teams, lessons and a warm lunch are getting beyond what many of us can afford. Time and time again, we hear statements made from SVSH and KSL that we’re not the market they are trying to serve. Clearly there are some people out there that have that much money to spend, but it’s not us: the locals, the day trippers and regional vacationers that have called Alpine Meadows home since 1961.
We hope that you join the movement to “Free Alpine”. Let us know if you need a sticker or two. If you noticed the hash tag, starting tagging your pictures that show the real soul of Alpine Meadows and we’ll start posting some of them. We’re hoping to find a sponsor to pay for some prizes. #freealpine
I definitely would like a sticker!
There’s some at Tahoe Snow Labs or the Truckee Sports Exchange or use the contact us page to give me a mailing address.
KSL needs execs who get out there, notice things and fix things. Pull beers, meet n greet, talk.
It might be noticing conga lines of kids in ski school hogging the slope, or noticing employees like Kate are ‘leaving’, or a huge 8 mile pipe, or Stan Ford’s scoop, or a for sale sign on a river near the hwy.
When is the last time you actually saw a ski executive in a line, on a chair, or skiing a run? Remember Jim Kercher? I say “Free Alpine!”
Kercher used to stand out by the Summit line to wait for me to lap around so we could talk about the mountain…
Yes Sir! and he’d stand in the breezeway, chat it up, feel the vibe, give an employee a “Kudo” and inspire the guest to have the best day skiing ever!
If KSL was in-tune with SqAM, they’d be 2 years closer to turning dirt with a community-endorsed plan for bricks and soul-building programs for winter and for green season. Is Andy surrounded by ‘yes men’ or by execs with eyes, ears and ideas?
Mon Deu
Again again again there’s no Museum in squabblersvalley’s new website.
Those old schemers must be throwing temper tantrums, no? Were they not clever enough?
There is no museum over the toilet pipes to flush their profits down.
The homeless employees secure a housing deal for 250 beds …. but the Museum is homeless.
Kids and teams won, but the Museum’s squabblers didn’t. That is hilarious, no?
Whoever received the $200,000 grant from la BoS Lady has made $200,000 for nothing. Ingenius.
So where’d the $200,000 go?
I think Placer’s expert charged $200,000 to recommend a spot next to Far East where the hotel is going. Doh, for half that I’d tell them where to go 🙂
Hey I read here on UA about faults under KSL’s area and, wow, now its in the new NOP:
“Several unnamed fault
traces run through Squaw Valley. The alignments of these faults have not been fully determined, but one or more might traverse the plan area. If an active fault does exist within the plan area, it could potentially rupture, causing damage to buildings in the immediate vicinity.”
Isn’t the aquifer just 60′ below the carpark in places too, ie prety thin to build 10 storeys? I’m sure I read that here
Oh the NOP talks about ’10 storey’ buildings – I thought KSL shaved it to 7. Just saying sometjing doesn’t add up at the County. Is someone pulling the wool over our eyes, or can’t the County count?
Placer’s NOP saying “Phase I buildings would range from two to ten stories tall. …” TEN STOREYS???? I thought the new Right Plan was up to 7 storeys in places. Has the County mis-added or have KSL told tall tales?
At the Model, I counted 8 – I think – at most, 1 half sunk level for cars and 7 for condo hotel rooms. Other places were 3 at most so our view wasn’t overly impeded.
Are KSL playing games or is the revised NOP full of little errors?
I think IOV and FOSV should point out things like this 10 storey anomoly (assuming 10 storeys is wrong).
http://t.co/en5yewwVas
How did homewood’s permits deal with these faults that could lift the west shore by 6-12′? I mean how can you build $500m of hi rise residences in a quake proof way, and will Squaw do special things to stop buildings collapsing into an aquifer. Or am I watching too much tv?
your readers learned about the faultline excavation study and the NOP earthquake issue before it was in the main media! .
UA’s simply the best source for raising issues before the mainstream press and local information diseminators I reckon.
Ypu’re Super.
– ‘Lois Lane’.
I read in the NOP “The East Parcel zoning would allow for up to 200 bedrooms.” for 250 employees. Sweet – this sounds like most employees get their own private bedroom rather than all crammed in smelly over crowded dorms like sardines. Also they park there, ie not near where day trippers park cars. Extra sweet, don’t you think. There’s also road routing as we saw mentioned in Unofficialalpine, shuttles and a mass transit hub too. It looks like they’ve really designed a workable plan that deals with all the logistics.
Should we tell the NOP officials we want deed restricted rent controlled permit conditions on the empoyee place with preference for locals or highly qualified staff (not J1 pot washers), or isn’t that something for the nop commentary stage?
I think it’d be nice if IOV and FoSV and Sierra Watch did more than tell people to submit comments. What comments are relevant to the issues in a draft eir? We don’t have info on archeology, fault lines, yellow bellow sapsuckers mating habitat, water consumption, traffic measurements, or things to add meat to vague claims ‘its too big’. There’s just not a lot of useful info from our fearless leaders as attendances at IOV meetings falls to about 15 people in peak season out of 550 resident locals. Afe they losing traction or do they just want a town for snow clearing. I can’t see any soulful ideas either, like foundations for kids without big bucks for team fees. .
30 years for the latest plan sounds more like a prison term than a construction timeline. . I mean it only took J Edgar Hoover 30 years to dig out the entire Grand Canyon with a chain gang and two shovels, didnt it?.
Mintgomery must be mad to think voters are swayed easily. Why would voters in the valey think they’s do better with nearly $2m a year in surplus revenues in their own corner of Placater County, Ms Montgomery. glory be, Ms Mintgomery, the town could have $4k per voter every year for the 500 voters to directly benefit from real services. Gosh, with $697,000 of advertising the voters could advertise their rentals, their restaurants, their events and their town a lot better than making Nstar & Squaw’s advertising budget richer with our tax money. With $200k for those ‘experts’, Ms MintGomery, that $ could be 150 season passes for kids on teams, or trips for teams around Nth Ametica to compete. $7.5m for a failed bus scheme could be a fleet of 75 gold plated limos.
Voters aren’t stupid and there’s a smell about what Mintgomery wasn’t saying.
Either she doesn’t know things like 8 mile pipes and county checks for those $290 bus seats, or she was batting for the other team. So tell us Ms Mintgomery, why should anyone think that Placer deserve to keep the locals’ tax money?
You really think these clowns – who cost their investors a fortune – are smart enough to hire smart people.
The Amex lady’s people are litigating with Wm Baer’s people with badges. What a f up that was. Has she come up with anything good – like a contract with a town and a back up deal with Hiltonhonours and Marriott so they can pre-sell new apartments asap ‘off the plan’? Or have they signed up non contentious deals so they can start on the fractional houses?
They hired unlicensed lobbyists. Rofl.
They can’t even recruit smart local politicians.
There were more people swapping seats on committees than the deck of the Titanic.
They’ll hire a graduate with no experience or they’ll hire a so called hotshot from a big corporation who never stood on her own two feet.
Is there a reward for finding half a resort?
I was going to hand it in to the Police but they said no one wanted it 🙂
“May mislead readers’ says Water President Cox about the water board’s claim there’s only enough water for 100 residences! Wow.
Originally Posted by SVPSD Meeting Minutes from December 17
Director Poulsen …. commented on the Moonshine Ink article about the District’s redundant water supply project and possible conveyance of water from Martis Valley. It seemed that the article brought forth negative rather than positive impacts. He said in the article, Mr. Geary states there is water for only 100 more residences and he has been questioned about this figure. Director Wilcox said that figure was based on an older study based on the District’s existing well field capacity not the aquifer’s capacity. President Cox said this may mislead readers and suggested Mr. Geary contact Moonshine Ink to clarify this.’
I’m appalled that the figure wasn’t corrected at later Question and Answer functions, even during direct questions about water from locals and the IOV fellow we saw on Tahoe TV. Later the article on the pros of the 8 mile pipe didn’t say ‘hey there’s heaps of water so the pipe really is for emergencies, not for KSL’s swimming pools’. Another article asked if the community was evolved enough: heck yes, if they know real facts n figures rather than being led down the garden path.
If reporters from esteemed papers like Moonshine Ink can’t get uptodate figures, should we be en guarde?
So what’s this new water board that’s mentioned in the latest summary of the NOP??? Who gets first bite(s) of the water, and will homeowners and businesses get stuck with infrastructure charges. Or are the overlords truly benevolent beings?
The new Specific Plan and NOP tells me it was a shame a bunch didn’t sit down with the “Squaw Moderates” and KSL to negotiate conditions that some places use to enshrine soul in deeds.
ksl has blacked out shop deal tix till january 6 I have a bronze pass but I’m fully screwed now. thinking sugar bowl and homewood pass next year. and they want $102 for a day pass with maybe 20 percent of both mountains open. wtf FREE ALPINE!!!!@
$479 for a three hour lesson…………..come on now! who can afford to learn to ski at that price? Your outta of your mind people. Dang! Those ski instructors are raking it in. Thank goodness I learned to ski and love this sport when it was affordable! Any one for a lesson….? in marketing?
I still need a ticket and rental! Not included? How much is that Gordon Geiko?
We Wall Street asset stripping merchant bankers may have bankrupted the USA and most of the world, but we would never deign to mix with insurance people. We have morals, Ms Valleygirl 🙂
Love,
Ivanka and Donald
I don’t believe Squaw Executives are real.
Apart from bogus ‘sightings’, I’ve never seen one, have you?
– Nessie.
Hi Cuz and Seasons greetings. It’s true – none of us monsters, aliens, ghosts or goblins has ever seen a Squaw executive, much less spoken to one.
Personally I think someone just made up tales about flying ceo’s to scare little kids 🙂
Tessie,
KSL didn’t believe ‘Father Mark’ could save Squaw’s soul.
Ooh that 8 mile pipe of holy water up their bum must’ve scared the B’Alzebub out of them 🙂
Cheerio to everyone at Amityville.
Dear 007,
Is it true that Squaw’s bid for the Winter Olympics has a home furnishing store!!!!
Brilliantly devilish idea to confound the Chinese and Ruskies, 007, is it.?
Those darstardly clever Executives sure know what they doing, because even we at MI5 certainly can’t figure it out
Do they have any other baffling ideas because, well frankly, Her Majesty is thinking about taking California back before they ruin the place for good.
🙂
Those ski instructors are making less then 15% of that people are paying for lessons.
Yes one recent letter said 18% was the number.
The instructors only get around $12 an hour, it’s a total scam?
#FreeAlpine!
one day a week at $12 less tax less lodging = a new underclass of ‘on call’ serfs.
How can this be legal? Oh yeah, they’re not technically ‘on call’ in case there’s a dump or there’s a high demand days.
So what is IOV going to about it? Will it have a dept of labor? Will they draft Permits to ensure Ironman crowds don’t stop employees from getting to work? I didn’t see them advocate for deed restricted employee housing with town planning conditions. I haven’t seen them propose building designs or business-modelling to ensure the housing is for US locals who can’t afford the time and money to drive or bus from Incline or Truckee or TC for a few hours of poorly paid rostered work. So what’s being done by the ‘its too big, too high, and will block my view’ brigade for anyone lower on the food chain?
The poor girl sat an sno ventures all day while her colloagues were ‘un rostered’. Sad. Meantime 2 ski biz places have closed their doors, 2 more are rumored to be closing. A 5th is running at 50% or less below last season’s year to date figures. Restaurants are hurting or heameragghing too. Will a water park and 2 bedroom lock off condos be enough to keep tourists coming in ,low tide season? Is the NOP’s extra water storage enough? Where can we get facts and figures to back up any letters to the County nop people? If there’s a pathetic 4th bad season in a row, it really will be a ghost town.
Re you comment ” If we want mountains that have an individual identity, they need their own managers and staff. Alpine Meadows has lost a lot of key mid-managers, and more and more employees report to someone in an office at Squaw Valley. Decisions are made by people that have no idea what has made Alpine Meadows a different experience than Squaw Valley. Surely a lot of this “streamlining” makes sense to the bean counters in accounting – but it destroys the individuality of each mountain.”
Can’t agree more.
If KSL reads unofficialalpine, consider this: if the first 2 plans were ‘soulful’ and sensible, they’d be 2 years closer to turning dirt and selling off-the-plan condos, fractionals and timeshares.
“Surely a lot of this “streamlining” makes sense to the bean counters in accounting – but it destroys the individuality of each mountain.”.
Beancounters can’t build businesses. They can cut costs and cut costs and cut costs, but they’re as unimaginative – unless they’re scheming – as their brown sweaters and brown pants.
Are these the same beancounters who spent big bucks on three models, lost half a development, lost years of progress and will cost those sychophants at the County about $4m a year in lost revenue. Are the beancounters the ones who must have very unhappy investors?
And the smaller plan will take 25-30 years, up from 15-20, up from 5 -10. Rofl. A one armed bricklayer could build faster than that.
Heads should roll in the beancounting dept.
My dearest Igor,
I heard that KSL didn’t think Unofficialalpine was as widely read as it is, heard your scoops, then they pulled out the pencils and redid the plans. I too learned too late the dangers of sewing bits together and hoping the village would love that one soul. Ah but I was wrong. Horribly wrong: all the villagers saw was a monster. My beloved creation was reviled and chased out of town, Igor.
Their executives are really out of touch like I was, igor. I’m stunned – how can they miss all the cross linkages to UA by FOS’s and IOV’s facebook pages. On the otherhand, townfolk never heard of things either until UA ran things that were verified in Moonshine like the ‘8 mile pipe’. Sierra Watch cautiously and belatedly ‘noted’ the story – and they settled a whole court case over Martis Camp. How come they weren’t screaming that pipe deal from the rooftops of Truckee? How come the water board Board didn’t seem to know despite being on the board itself?
Maybe they’ll all listen to UA more now, as I listened to your sage words, Igor.
How though are all the factions in Squaw ever going to sit down and pow wow the transitions and the lift in 2 years time, and the water for AM.
Andy wasn’t able to lead them out of the wilderness as Moses did.
Jennifer was more than useless – she can’t give $200k to expert museum people without causing a witchhunt
Squaw’s executives and bus people drove off the fiscal cliff like lemmings
Hosea couldn’t sell the KSl vision despite his impeccable success with high end places mostly sold off this year .
The ex Amex ladys marketing team invented the Soul angle, and they poached brownie PR points from the whole history made by McConkey and the Olympics last millenium. There’s not an original marketing idea there, is there.
SV/KSL need to think how they can work with a town board and the neighbours in AM to bring the new vision to life, with a twin soul for AM and SV. Ahd the AM people shunned the Squaw-AM town plan.
From experience I know you can’t cobble bits together and breath life into it without creating a monster that the villagers will chase outta Dodge.
So dearest Igor, tell your friends at KSl to NOT sew Squaw and Alpine together, lest history repeat itself.
Two bodies can’t have one soul, Igor.
Yours,
Dr Frankenstein.
The NOPisalso raising questions we’ve seen in Unofficialalpine, eg ” Furthermore, the project would result in the placement of housing and other structures that would contain substantial numbers of people in a wildland area, thereby potentially exposing people and structures to a risk of wildland fire. These issues will be evaluated in the EIR.”
Will fire hydrants on the hwy be enough?
Where’s the really big extra water storage ?
Why doesn’t the NOP say “and the water from Truckee/Martis originates from drainage and greywater in the new KSL place rather than ‘steals’ water?”
Why are KSL’s water readings so out of line with the water board’s? Is it “there’s enough only for KSL” vs “there’s not enough for KSL + 230 houses + 8 houses + 100 lots + Phase 2 of the SqCrikResort”? And why did the moderator let questions go unanswered? And why didn’t Mintgomery tell the Museaum Pickleballers “Hey that site’s no good – it’ll be over the 8 mile pipe!”. Obviously there’s secrets and agendas that keep the town in the dark ….and now there’s new powerlines for lights hidden under a greenie bike path. What’s really going on? Someone should confess all these dark little secrets.
How can we respond to the NOP if we don’t know how much water there’ll be with the 8 mile pipe and these rooftop snow melt ideas + the new extra storage tanks. I’m not even sure without glasses if the extra storage is 1.5 or 15 million gallons – I reckon 7,000,000 gals is needed. The Water Board skirted the answers at the Presentation in January too. KSL and the Moderator weren’t forthcoming with real cold hard facts either. Give us the fact’s m’aam, just the facts.
And lurking in the background are the pro-Olympic people with their agenda for mass transit to likely venues like Vail Resorts’ 3 hills + Squaw and Reno + Stateline. How will that impact on the Snowtrain extention from Sac or light rail ideas down the hwy?
Meantime pro-town folks say they’re going skiing rather than going to conferences chaired by the Cal Water Commission guy. You know, they’re the ones like Gov Brown’s task force and his Mr Shute who write laws for fast-trackednew enviro Court which steamroller over sleepy enviro groups
And anyone want the 2026 Olympics in your backyard?
http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/reno-tahoe-coalition-has-hurdles-clear-get-2026-winter-olympics
IOV want to hear from the community about items you want on their agenda. Let them know.
I’d like them to look into
1. Can we get answers about the new proposed water board.
2. In December the SVPSD President Wilcox stated, in the Minutes of 12/17/2013, that geary’s figures ‘may have misled readers’ of Moonshine Ink into thinking there’s only enough water for 100 residences. The Board Minutes also suggested that geary clarify his figures with Moonshine but, since then, there was no clarification that I know of. Instead we’ve had a barrage of non-answers to questions at IOV’s Meeting in january and again at the KSL Presentation. What does the town planning lawyer think can happen if a water body excites people into opposing a development by advising readers there’s only enough water for 100 residences?
3. Can the FoSV get an expert like Dave Brew to respond to NOP’s 1. Can we get answers about the new proposed water board.
2. In December the SVPSD President Wilcox stated, in the Minutes of 12/17/2013, that geary’s figures ‘may have misled readers’ of Moonshine Ink into thinking there’s only enough water for 100 residences. The Board Minutes also suggested that geary clarify his figures with Moonshine but, since then, there was no clarification that I know of. Instead we’ve had a barrage of non-answers to questions at IOV’s Meeting in january and again at the KSL Presentation. What does the town planning lawyer think can happen if a water body excites people into opposing a development by advising readers there’s only enough water for 100 residences?
3. Can the FoSV get an expert like Dave Brew to respond to NOP’s proposals for Squaw Creek that the community can co-sign. His article in Moonshine “What’s in store for our beloved Squaw Creek’ was pretty detailed (and complex). I think FoSV should draw on his expertise and then get community backing so the NOP People listen. (Or if Dave thinks the NOP is great, say so).
4. Or should the community just clip and paste links to Letters to the Editor, like Dave Brew’s and Robb Gaffneys and the Concerned Citizens’s Letter and the Sierra Sun Poll, and we all send them off to the county and ask the NOP people to look into those things just in case the NOP overlooked something?
Just saying.
http://www.svpsd.org/pdffiles/12-17-13_SpecialMinutes.pdf
Originally Posted by SVPSD Meeting Minutes from December 17
Director Poulsen thanked Aleta Drake for her service and said she will be greatly missed. He commented on the Moonshine Ink article about the District’s redundant water supply project and possible conveyance of water from Martis Valley. It seemed that the article brought forth negative rather than positive impacts. He said in the article, Mr. Geary states there is water for only 100 more residences and he has been questioned about this figure. Director Wilcox said that figure was based on an older study based on the District’s existing well field capacity not the aquifer’s capacity. President Cox said this may mislead readers and suggested Mr. Geary contact Moonshine Ink to clarify this.
The Water Board should answer questions, like the questions about Water that were asked at the KSL Presentation. KSL, the Water Board, and the Moderator should’ve demanded answers too.
The people of Squaw are not mushrooms to be fed on crap and kept in the dark.
Ever since those Minutes hit the Net, people started talking.
I personally didn’t like the way some uber water expert obfuscated and talked down to attendees at functions, and who were described in other quarters as ‘yokels’.
From the sounds of things, the ‘hicks’ were onto something.
Will Moonshine and the media call the water board for a Please Explain?
more back-of-the-envelope figures from water industry people are saying there’s more than enough water for KSl and other development approvals.
This 8 mile pipe and the figures given to the press will get interesting
1. What’s this VSVSP water company mean for villagers in the new NOP Summation??? ,
-Added/Revised Text-
Location: Section 6.2.1 Old Paragraph 1/New Paragraph 1
“The groundwater basin technical analysis prepared indicates that there is sufficient water
within the aquifer to meet the project demands, along with the water demands of the existing
and other future users. Therefore, the Specific Plan development will be served by groundwater
obtained from either the SVPSD or through creation of a VSVSP water company.”
2/. Again they say there’s sufficient water but the guy in the Moonshine article said there’s only enough for 100 residences (ie 100 condos, not 750 condos?). But the Water Board Minutes used the word ‘mislead’???
What are these people doing?
http://t.co/en5yewwVas
How do they engineer quake-proof 8 mile pipes and underground power and poo pipes and 7 (or 10?) storey high places over an aquifer ‘hole’, just 61′ below the carpark?
earthquake experts estimate an earthshake will raise the west shore by 6′ anytime soon like past quakes every 4000 years, ie any tick of the clock. According to the seismology diggers’ new sub camera, the main fault runs from Meyers to Dollar Point and its overdue. Can you imagine natural gas leaks, buildings over the aquifer, and 8 miles of pipes in a big shake. What do the Japanese do when building on fault lines near water? There must be some building safeguards when you build on a big hole near big cracks.
What does FoSV, IOV and Sierra Watch recommend the building permit and eir people look into from an engineering and architectural viewpoint?
Here it is if you want to throw your 2 cents to the county
https://www.facebook.com/FriendsOfSquawValley/photos/pb.293793520740177.-2207520000.1393064037./524750684311125/?type=3&src=https%3A%2F%2Ffbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net%2Fhphotos-ak-ash3%2Ft1%2F1743491_524750684311125_156682810_n.jpg&size=948%2C634&fbid=524750684311125
Looks like there’s more water that bypasses the aquifer. A bit of engineering should fix that, no?
“Director Poulsen said he attended the evening presentation
of the Creek Aquifer
Inte
raction
Study
and
commented
on the flow between
KT and Big Red and
the geology of the upper end of the
aquifer
and
the Papoose Bridge area. He
suggested this
is an
area
for more investigation as water
may be
bypassing
the
aquifer”.
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/263556-Friends-of-Squaw-Valley?p=4192835#post4192835 is a great take on the water situation. The media should go ask the water board if they made their people issue a correction.
Wow UA was right again – the new NOP says they are including the greywater purification recycling idea – when the NOP says “Finally, the project proposes to incorporate a grey water system to collect – and treat water – from baths, showers, hand basins, and washing machines for landscape irrigation use and for flushing toilets to the extent feasible. The EIR will evaluate these issues, as well as the potential to place housing or other structureswithin a 100-year flood hazard area, and the potential impacts associated with proposed creek restoration activities”
But about the 100 year flood, I thought KSL had ideas to store water in storage ie under roads like they do in monsoon countries like Maylasia.
Is there anything we really should be writing to the NOP about as requested by FOSV’s facebook request??
here’s a sumary of the changes between June 2013 and now – ie when social media comments went balistic
http://www.placer.ca.gov/~/media/cdr/Planning/SpecificPlans/VillageAtSquawValley/Jan2014Update/SummaryOfChanges.pdf
How come we find this complicated stuff not on FoSV or IOV or the POA
Where’s the guidance or leadership or pro forma letters coming fom the pro-town planning people? FoSV wants us to comment to the County but about what???? I think the FoSV Chairman said he was pleasantly surprised by the changes but then they ask the public to comment WITHOUT telling us “What do you think about ……[insert issue of concern]. . What can the public say to the County that will make the County say ‘gosh, we better fix that or ban that or move that thing over here’.
Incidentally I see the artist sketches show 7 or 8 levels, not the 10 in the new documents. And are the 6′ high SUVs and visitors to scale against the buildings? (The floors look a bit squishy to me).
I also saw the treescaping is reduced from 18 acres to 10.
I can’t see a modelling that shows if the new huge place really affects most people’s views.
Where’s the leadership from the local experts? I can’t imagine locals will wade through 29 pages of complex stuff and then write anything that could embarrass them.
Or should we write in saying FOSV said they were pleasantly surprised so it must be great?
IOV’s attendances aren’t as large as they were, their forum isn’t recruiting many people or comments, while Uunofficialalpine.com soars in hits and Moonshine’s Editorial on pipes and Human Nature/Agents of Change reach the stratosphere. Apart from more snowclearing and hiring locals as town administrators, what does IOV actually intend doing with all the money they hope to receive as taxes? My ski towns are part of a streamlined group that gets kids to the World cup and darn close to meals in the Olympics, while building tourism to support economic corridors up to 5 hours drive away. Our towns work with airlines and buses, universities, and many more to grow the sport and bring money into the shops. Our towns hire the ski patrollers – the town doesn’t unroster them by 60%. Our towns run the medical center – built by BP with no interest long term loans (that they wrote off or forgot). Our towns also audit and get dubious execs tossed off lift companies as police investigations look into things. What then is a new town going to do to put Soul into Squalpine? Even the Design Review Committee is just upset with the Toyota Display . wow, that’s earth shattering.
I noticed the Summary at the County italicizes ‘and/or a new mutual water company’. Hello.
Location: Policy PU-3
“Work with the Squaw Valley Public Services District and/or a new mutual water company to
develop a well field and operational approach that minimizes drawdown on municipal and
private wells and does not substantially diminish flows to Squaw Creek.”
What’s this new mutual water company all about.
Is it a 3rd board in the valley ?
Is a company that’ll take water before it gets to the Mutual Water Board’s end of the village
Is it a merger of the 2 existing boards
Is it a Super Board that’ll coordinate/takeover the amalgamated truckee boards. If true, will it fire lots of little people to create a uberpowerful group of bureaucrats?
Is it something that the ex truckee politician was upset about when Moonshine uncovered the 8 mile pipe was really coming to town.
Do the IOV/FoSV people know what’s going on before it happens?
Who’s in bed together while the public meetings are left with unanswered questions?
Readers of UA saw this scoop on water boards ages ago, …. but there wasn’t anything I saw on the POA or IOV or other ‘information’ sites.
Next thing, kapow batman, its on the brand new official NOP Docs!
The greywater stuff – as seen on UA – is also in the huge Nop docs.
How did your readers know more scoops than anything heard from the official purveyors of ‘information’???
Is there any reason to go to IOV Meetings when everything is here???
Maybe the new water board gets gov grants to defray the cost. And if KSL’s HOA is a big new client of utilities, maybe they get a special deal on kilowatt hours and gas charges from companies who need to get powerlines upgraded before lots of new places go up in nth tahoe. Does IOV have any info about the what overlords are planning behind closed doors.
Location: Policy HS-3
“A minimum of 50% of the requisite housing will be located within the Olympic Valley” says the Notice of prep of a Draft EIR. Didn’t we read on UA and in Moonshine about wrapping carparking around employee housing in a couple of sites that came on the market?
KSL and a smart town now just need to put soul into things like congestion problems at AM. They need a in-touch Jim Kercher as a director of soul: there’s $ in running a customer-focused resort too.
Speaking of smart towns, does IOV have an option to lease office space in the event the people vote them into existence. I think UA would make a better Mayor: that’s why Jim Kercher would wait for you in the lift line to shoot the breze. Vote 1 for UA!!!
A young Tamara McKinney is in the pic in this article about snowmaking saving Park City town in the recent edition of the Park City Record. A link is below for your reading pleasure.
Read what they did with snow- making and how it saved the town –
then ask yourself “Where’s that 2,000,000 litre per day waste recycling plant we read about?”
“Editor’s note: This is the second part in a two part series about the history of Park City Mountain Resort which is celebrating its 50th ski season. … The ski season of 1976-77 is better known as the season it didn’t snow. The slopes were bare at Thanksgiving. Then, according to The Park Record, came the driest December in Utah history. At that time, other than a crude snowmaking system stitched together by the mining company, the resort relied entirely on Mother Nature. Christmas came and went without any customers.
Then-Park City Ski Area president and general manager Phil Jones remembered, “There the town sat. So we put everything we could put together and pumped up water, used the golf course pumping system, put aluminum irrigation pipe on top of the golf course, across the road down there, across the parking lot, up to the base, put a diesel booster pump at the base, and ran – the old snowmaking pipe that was there initially, ran water up that, put another booster pump midway on Payday, and pumped water to the top of Payday.” That season, opening day was Jan. 5. And the skiable terrain was limited to a few runs off the Prospector lift.
At that time Park City had competing weekly newspapers. And on Jan. 5 The Park Record’s competition, The Newspaper, printed a front page that was blank except for two words in huge capital letters: “GONE SKIING.
”
After that, the resort’s new owner, Nick Badami made a commitment “to get whole hog in the snowmaking business,” Jones said.
“Our decision was to take as much of the marketing budget as we possibly could and put it into the snowmaking capital expenditure. We cut marketing way, way back. We told executives there would be no bonuses for the next three years, and did everything with our capital budget, expect repair and maintenance on the rest of our facilities, and put all of that into snowmaking.”
Jones said he believes that decision saved the company. “It saved the town, for sure. We had ads in The Park Record from banks and businesses thanking us for our investment and what it did for the future of the town. It was a huge decision for a little company.” He said the resort continued to upgrade its snowmaking system for the rest of his career.
Under Badami’s leadership, the resort also opened up new terrain with the Pioneer chairlift in 1984 and linked the mountain to Park City’s Old Town with the Town Lift in 1985. The construction of the Eagle chairlift in 1993 provided access to a new ski-racing venue near the bottom of the mountain.
Bringing the World Cup to town
Even before the arrival of the U.S. Ski Team, resort officials had worked hard to schedule competitive ski races. Beginning in 1963-64, the annual Lowell Thomas Classic attracted some of the top alpine racers in the country. In December 1969, French phenom Jean-Claude Killy visited the resort for a challenge series against Stefan Kelan, a giant slalom specialist from Switzerland. But it took Nick and Craig Badami, to put Park City on the international ski-racing map.
In the 1980s, Nick Badami was on the board of directors of the U.S. Ski Team. Craig, his son, was vice president of marketing for the resort and a flamboyant, enthusiastic fan of ski racing.
“Craig was a wild and crazy guy, and he had his dad’s purse strings, and he had his dad behind him,” Jones said. “And he was kind of Nick’s mouthpiece, in lots and lots of ways.”
In July 1984, U.S. Ski Team spokesman John Dakin told The Park Record that the International Ski Federation was considering World Cup races at either Park City or Snowbird to fill an 11-day gap in the 1984-85 race schedule. In October came the word that Park City would host men’s and women’s slaloms the following March.
At that time Karen Korfanta was working with U.S. Ski Team coach John McMurtry to help U.S. resorts prepare for upcoming World Cup and Can-Am (now Nor-Am) races. When McMurtry was named chief of race for Park City’s ’85 World Cup, he asked her to join the preparations for that event. She recalled think-outside-the-box meetings with Craig Badami and Jack Turner, a former nordic competition director for USSA, who was hired as World Cup event coordinator.
“He and Craig were the dreamers,” Korfanta said. “They would spend many hours dreaming of things. In the race organization meetings we had, I mean, it was, ‘Think of anything that you can possibly think of that you would want to do.'”
What Craig Badami and Jack Turner dreamed up was unlike anything seen at an American World Cup race. With temperatures climbing into the 50s, about 10,000 race fans lined the course to watch Erika Hess of Switzerland win gold in the women’s race. In between runs they were entertained by local band Johnny and the Rockers, with Craig himself playing blues harmonica, as snowballs flew among the spectators. That evening came a fireworks show and another concert. It was, someone reportedly said, a rock concert posing as a ski race. Or was it the other way around?
“I think Craig was the first one that really, in the States, convinced everyone that it cannot just be a ski race. It has to be an event,” Korfanta said.
About that time many of the top female U.S. racers, including Tamara McKinney, Diann Roffe, Holly Flanders, Eva Twardokens and Park City’s own Tori Pillinger, signed “headgear sponsorships” with Park City Ski Area, wearing the words PARK CITY emblazoned on headbands and helmets. International race fans couldn’t help but notice.
The resort held another World Cup race the following March, and then, in the fall of 1986, began the tradition of holding “America’s Opening,” the first North American World Cup races of the season, in late November. It would continue until 2002.
Phil Jones contends that, without Park City’s success in holding World Cup races, the 2002 Winter Olympics would not have come to Utah.
In November 1989, following the end of another successful America’s Opening, Craig Badami was a passenger in a helicopter when a dangling cargo cable snagged on the corner of a ski-waxing cable near the base of the resort. The cable then broke loose and flew up into the helicopter’s rotor. The helicopter crashed onto the First Time ski run, killing Craig and critically injuring the pilot and four other passengers.
“Craig was Nick’s only son, and with him no longer alive, it took the heart out of Nick as far as the ski business was concerned, as you can imagine,” Jones said. “So he began to talk about trying to find somebody to sell (to). … It was a difficult time. So anyway, Ian Cumming came along and had the wherewithal, and had a couple of young sons that he was trying to find a spot for, kind of similar to what Nick was doing with Craig. And so that became another transition.”
Powdr Corp. buys out Badami
In April 1994, Alpine Meadows of Tahoe Inc. announced that it had accepted a stock buyout by Powdr Corp., a private corporation owned by Cumming, a Salt Lake City financier. The transaction gave Powdr control of both Alpine Meadows and Park City Ski Area. A year later, Powdr bought the Boreal and Soda Springs ski areas near Donner Summit. Since then, Powdr has also purchased Gorgoza Park, a tubing hill near Pinebrook, and several other resorts.
In the Badami era, the resort had resisted opening its runs to snowboards. However, in 1996 Powdr reversed that decision and changed the resort’s name from Park City Ski Area to Park City Mountain Resort (PCMR). The first terrain parks and halfpipes opened the following year.
The new owners also increased the uphill capacity of the mountain in the late 1990s with several high-speed six-passenger chairlifts including Silverlode, Payday, Bonanza and McConkey’s. The gondola, a resort icon since 1963, was removed in 1997. In 2001, the Town Bridge over Park Avenue consummated the process of linking the resort with Park City’s Old Town.”
http://www.parkrecord.com/park_city-news/ci_24788176/park-city-mountain-resort-enters-world-stage
Placer wants Public Comments oin the new NOP or whatever they call it : I might just send them all these Comments 🙂
I see extra water storage – as seen in UA
I see employee housing with wrap around parking as seen in UA
I see an 8 mile pipe,
tapping into sewers,
heated roof top snowmelt + drains
rerouted rooads in Chamonix Place
Set backs and landscaping for privacy
Lopping of storeys that blocked my view!!!
and Parking
and a transit cnter for buses …like we read about when Squaw proposed no more Amador.
But what have the pro-town folk had KSL do?
And why isn;’t the County holding another Meeting like the half-baked community meeting that wasn’t moderated by someone who gets answers. “Ask the water guy, he’s the man’ was a cop out.
I am one of those “Alpine til I die” people. Converted my wife who taught at Squaw for ten years. I had been a passholder at AM since ’99/’00, my wife and I since ’06/’07.We have two little groms now that have been skiing since they were 18 months old. 5 years ago we moved down to Colfax but still drove to Alpine to get our turns.
Now we are passholders at Sugarbowl because of what we have seen and felt. What is happening to our sanctuary? Bring back our Alpine Meadows!!
Dear UA,
I read that Mamasake’s owner was in two minds about township however her business, and her 30 employees, are watching food trucks drive their loot out the valley every day.
http://www.moonshineink.com/sections/soul-kitchen/food-truck-movement-comes-squaw-and-alpine
The food trucks sound like a great idea for me and for people who don’t want to pay restaurant prices, but I don’t have a lease for a high rent restaurant or 30 employees who depend on me to pay their wages. .I don’t have kids on team or a seasonal job interspersed with .
How do the restauranteurs and shops feel about their landlord letting more competition in the village?
Does KSL get money from the food trucks.
Did Placer get $ for permits for these food trucks?
In leases, did KSL agree to not compete against the tenant, or was the lease one-way all the way to the bank in Colorado?
What do these food truck people do to employ lots of locals?
Would a town protect the restaurant and its 30 employees from trucks driving out of town full of loot?
Do restaurants fill up during Events, or can’t employees get to work because the events forgot to allow parking passes for blockades set up to stop workers getting to the restaurants
Do Placer get permit fees and taxes from these trucks?
I bet food trucks make it harder to swallow that rent bill every month,
Yikes, every place along Tahoe Blvd and Pioneer Trail has “Vacancy” signs, a casino looks pretty empty, and No Shows are going somewhere else. This is a disaster.
The temps are too high for snowmaking if you have water and Squaw doesn’t have a recycling plant or really big water storage.
In an act of desperation, we must sacrifice Squaw executives to the snowgods. Hey, even if nothing is gained, who cares. 🙂
I remember UA mentioned KSL would also have normal timeshares – not just fractionals – to build up visitations and, maybe, build up work in dining places, ski hires, and ski school demand. Guess what – UA were right according to the NOPDEIR document:
“The Village Neighborhoods – primarily high-density mixed-use/ resort residential areas,
including condo hotels, fractional and timeshare uses..”
The Right Plan just needs better lifts for powder days, and maybe more snowmaking areas to open areas for teams. Why does the water board man say that snowmaking, that doubles as fire fighting, isn’t their jurisdiction but fire hydrants on the hwy are? Surely the highway isn’t in the SVPSD boundary just like the slopes aren’t. Besides, fires on a highway run uphill don’t they?
Glad to have met up and received some #FreeAlpine stickers a couple days ago. Going on the kids’ helmets now.
Love the idea of different price season tickets but X number of days at the other hill. Use them wisely, and preferably not when my kids are on the hill. Yeah, I’m talking to you, self absorbed woman that hit and knocked my 6 yr old over on Christmas Eve. (Apologies to anyone within earshot of my verbal tirade)
Skiing has been priced into the stratosphere for most, and I wonder if many resorts care? For the less dedicated, a long holiday week can run $100×4 daysx4 people, then ~$1500+ for lodging, $400+ for rentals, then a bunch mor for food and possible lessons. The only people “new” to the snow are those that might be interested and capable of buying a condo, so perhaps the KSL types want the elite not the brown baggers to show up?
Sadly, no one can argue that Alpine hasn’t lost good people, and true Alpine characters too. Only one way to bring that back, #FreeAlpine!!
Here’s something cobbled together for tourists to look at in case there’s something useful for the holiday. http://wp.me/p3KzU3-m
Alpinecdreamer: how’s this.
Food: get a kitchen in the condo.
Lodging: $149 for a week in a condo on the lake. I missed that deal: mine is $699 for a week in a 2 bedroom condo with a pool on the water. For Xmas – NY the casinos in Reno were $420-$700 a WEEK and sleep 4 in 2 queen beds, but you get stunk at the bar and breakfast. Shop harder.
Passes: I can’t recall but I think Sugarbowl and Mt Rose and Diamond Peak are great value. We grabbed Squaw Silvers with Sierra at Tahoe added on for when we go to Sth Shore.
Lessons: just stand behind the paying customers, losten, watch and learn. That’s why I’m so much radder than you – Just remember to tip the instructor later 🙂
Condos: lol, you yanks are hopeless.
FreeAlpine: When your execs learn to run a resort, let me know. Poor sods ‘lost’ half their buildings I hear. Anyone seen them? 🙂
Mark,
I can PROVE, beyond reasonable doubt, that brain dead zombies are taking Squaw over.
Exhibit 1: Here is Squaw’s latest ‘Things to Do’: ski the parking lot with JT and Jonny, Happy Hour with Jeremy, and Smores at the local Chase Real Estate office. http://squaw.com/things-to-do/events-calendar/holidays-squaw
Exhibit 2: The New Zealanders know more than our own local zombies! http://wp.me/p3KzU3-m
Please please please, put my Bust back in High Camp and fire those Zombie Executives