Let’s be clear right from the start – nobody is saying we should completely eliminate the terrain parks at Alpine Meadows. Okay, maybe there are a few people out there, but not me or some of the other “radicals” that are running Facebook campaigns. There’s clearly an underutilization of what park is already there, which is tough to deny, and Alpine continues to say that more features will be added to the top of Alpine Bowl. One would guess that they are waiting for another storm cycle to generate the necessary snow.
There are good questions being asked about traffic patterns, potential safety issues, the cost of building and maintaining a huge park versus the huge increase in ticket prices, and just what is Alpine Meadows all about…it seems like even Squaw Valley is not sure what Alpine Meadows is all about. With all of this push for a mile long terrain park – the Squaw Valley/Alpine ad that ran many times during the X Game showed a two second blip of one crappy feature in the Squaw park and did not mention Alpine’s mile long park at all. What kind of marketing is that?
I do think it’s good that people share information and ideas. We know that management does pay attention to what happens here. We encourage people to continue to provide level headed opinions on either side of the question here, where you know we will moderate things, protecting you from being called an idiot or other rude and crude comments.
With that said…here’s our latest tongue in cheek presentation:
I live in Tahoe. As a former East Coaster, we get tons of guests each year from back home during ski season. I no longer bring guests to Alpine which used to be one of my “core” resorts – my personal favorite. In my case, that’s probably 50 skier days per year at the full daily lift rate. I am sure I am not alone. While some may say “so what”, it’s not in the interest of Alpine Meadows to lose customers. Here’s why: we now go elsewhere:
1) Alpine ($99) is now way over-priced – so much so that my friends and I now and feel it is a rip-off at the daily rate. Of course we tell this to any tourist we run into in town who asks us where to go which happens all the time. I am embarrassed to take people to Alpine and try to explain to them why the lift tickets are so high. Charging Squaw level prices for a smaller mountain with small inadequate base facilities out of the 1960s is a terrible deal.
2) To those in Management – those 50 lost skier days aren’t going to Squaw. Of course I take people to Squaw – it’s one of Tahoe’s premier resorts. But if you want to show visitors around Tahoe, you’ll go to multiple places. Those same daily lift tickets buy you a day at Heavenly ($92 to $102) or Northstar ($105) – both of which provide an excellant intermediate skiing option. The overall off-mountain experience at either of those areas blows away Alpine. As does that at Squaw. When you’re on vacation, the apres-ski shopping and dining scene matters far more than it does to a local who likely just heads home after a day on the slopes.
3) The terrain park ruins the Alpine experience – it was clearly put there by someone who doesn’t understand Alpine. A big plus of Alpine has always been while skiing from top to bottom you can go down a variety of groomed trails or you can zig and zag while bopping down through all the little knolls and off-piste areas that are spread throughout the trails. It was one of the few places where a true expert and an intermediate could have fun on the same run and only be a few yards apart. Intermediates could gradually get better by venturing into off-piste terrain in small chunks and still be only a few yards from the safety of a groomed slope. You can’t do that at Squaw – Squaw’s tremendous amount of expert terrain terrifies most intermediates who see (correctly) no possible way they can get down. Having that monstrous terrain park right down the center of Alpine’s prime terrain at Alpine is like pulling into a 7-11 when the tractor-trailer delivery guy is in blocking the parking lot. It’s hard to get around. So I just go elsewhere.
4) I have never taken a group and skied Alpine and Squaw in the same day. What a hassle and time-waster! This added “feature” of joint daily lift tickets having no value. Management – don’t kid yourselves! The shared resort feature only matters to pass holders.
5) Though I would never use it, I think a terrain park is fine – even a plus. Some of my guests have teenage hot shots who would love it. Just put it off to the side somewhere – maybe with it’s own lift. No reason it needs to be so long. It’s a destination as those who want to ride it will find it. It should not be something that degrades the mountain for the vast majority of your customers. If you really think it is attracting tons of new full-paying daily lift ticket customers, I suggest you look at your numbers. It sure doesn’t look like it to me. I know it is causing you to lose some full-pay day use customers.
Wow Al. Well done in the comprehensive comment department. You have said the same things we hear over and over on the lifts these days….
Al’s comments were quite convincing. Excellent points. Here’s a few thoughts I’d like to throw out as well. Had a interesting exchange with a supporter of the terrain park and he made some good points about how Northstar went through similar issues and problems years ago when they first installed the first parks on the Pioneer chair before making Vista chair into terrain park heaven. I’m hoping this forum and other’s like this will make Alpine realize that the terrain park at Dance Floor needs some major adjustments just like Northstar was willing to experiment and adjust according to the feedback they got back then. However that is for the future. What should concern everyone has been the sparse crowds at Alpine and the huge expense of the terrain park that has to be a concern for KSL. Unless the upcoming holiday’s bring in some massive crowds I wouldn’t be surprised if Alpine starts putting money holds on operations later in the season. Bottom line, I find it hard to believe the terrain park as it was designed and now built and maintained justifies it’s expense in light of the light use both Alpine in general and the park has seen since the park overwhelmed Dance Floor.
Losing Dance Floor is a huge loss to skiers transitioning from beginner slopes to intermediate ones, especially with them never running Yellow Chair on a week day.
Jennie I’m a midweek skier and I’ll give credit to Alpine for running Yellow most of this season so far. Having said that, last year it didn’t run much and I wouldn’t be surprised if Yellow along with Lakeview would be the first chairs placed on money holds later in March of this year.
I haven’t seen them run Yellow Chair yet this season during the week. We are out-of-towners so we do not necessarily see the typical operations but we heavily avoid weekends and holidays if we are going to bother to drive up there. But we were up the full week of Jan. 4th and this past full week of Jan. 28th and didn’t see Yellow Chair move. Though, admittedly, we went to Squaw on 3 out of those 10 days total but not likely to have been days they would have run Yellow in our absence.
Al really said what needs to be said.
A couple of other points–early season when Squaw was running only Shirley and Gold Coast and Alpine was closed wouldn’t it have made more sense to open Alpine for top to bottom groomers. Even when Squaw can run Red Dog and the Resort chairs they are lousy early season options. We’ll have to see what the spring holds but Alpine is a far better spring option with it’s multiple exposures and unbumped bowls.
Another terrain park problem–riders are coming off Roundhouse and cutting across the fall line coming out of Alpine Bowl to get to the small park in the trees near Weasel (even though there’s no need to cut over that soon). I’ve been almost hit a couple of times–had to swerve at the last second–by people paying no attention to traffic from above as they cut straight across the run.
Management seems to have no idea what Alpine has always had to offer–huge amounts of off piste skiing, top to bottom groomers, a mellow atmosphere, multiple exposures (especially when we get Juneuary conditions) and a cheaper ticket. Maybe someday it will all make sense if the to areas are truly connected but I doubt that will happen in my lifetime (the current connection is just a tease). If KSL can’t figure out a way to sell a cheaper Alpine only day pass they’re going to kill the place–sometimes it seems like that’s what they’re trying to do..
Free Dance Floor stickers are in… message me on “Move the Terrain Park at Alpine Meadow’s” facebook page, or email me at skidad63@gmail.com. There is no mailing list, no spam, and everything is free. Thanks Mike