And folks, this is why real estate companies should not be in charge of making decisions at Alpine Meadows. The unofficial word is that December 13th will be the official opening date at Alpine Meadows for the 2013-14 season. The usual disclaimers are there…”weather and conditions permitting”…blah, blah, blah. In talking to a number of Alpine Meadows veterans, there has been no other time in memory where the mountain planned to open so late.
Surely the mountain may have opened later in some years due to drought conditions or temperatures too warm for snowfall. Yesterday, we remembered that that there was no significant snow until February in ’06-’07. We certainly can’t fault the mountain in those instances. But planning to open so late sends a clear message to Alpine Meadows skiers and riders. We don’t really matter to KSL’s bottom line.
Here’s the link to the actual unpublished page on the Alpine Meadows website that was emailed to me today. Note that it’s still a work in progress and contains a blend of information from this season and last season.
There’s a time where Alpine Meadows was run by people who were actually passionate about sliding on snow. There was that glorious year in 2004, when record October snows allowed Alpine Meadows to open on October 30th, not just for a day, but for the season. Not only did they proudly announce it in a press release, they announced an opening time of 8:59 am to beat other resorts to the punch for “first open.” Those are the people that should be running Alpine Meadows!
Nobody expects Alpine Meadows to open on Halloween this year with a relatively dry forecast for October. But ski seasons used to get going during the week of Thanksgiving. There was always the question of whether or not it would be the weekend before Thanksgiving, or on the day before Thanksgiving at the latest. In the JMA years, we slid those dates back to a week after the Thanksgiving holiday. This year, the new standard is two weeks after the Thanksgiving holiday. Some of us want no part of Black Friday and we take pride in skiing with the family on Thanksgiving Day. That long standing tradition will be dying for many families, at least at Alpine Meadows.
It’s a slippery slope we are on, and not the nice snowy kind that we all like. Resort managers across the planet are quick to tell us that they only make money during the busy holiday periods, and “extended seasons” only eat into their shareholders’ profits. We will someday arrive at a place where Alpine Meadows is open only from the beginning of Christmas week until the end of President’s Weekend, or worse yet, only on busy weekends to absorb the overflow traffic from Squaw Valley. It does not seem like that is going to change as long as we are “the backside of Squaw Valley.”
It’s a pretty sure bet that Alpine Meadows will be the last resort to open for the 2013-14 season around Lake Tahoe. Last year, we managed to only beat Diamond Peak. I know, I know, we can ski at Squaw Valley too. Most of us probably will do that with no option for lift served skiing at our own mountain. I know Squaw Valley is an amazing mountain and there’s parts of it I love – but none of them are available during the early season. I positively hate walking through a village dragging ski gear. That seems to be a pretty common sentiment around North Tahoe lately. Luckily, I also have a Mount Rose pass for early season variety.
One thing is clear…unless people speak up, it’s only going to get worse. You can bet that the media machines will soon be telling us that they are only opening so late to make sure they are providing us with the quality snow that we expect. It’s time to let Alpine Meadows know that none of us expect perfection in the early season; those people are likely skiing at Northstar. I am quite happy to have a lift running and minimal snow coverage to the base area.
Added on 10/9/13: Pretty gutsy for Alpine Meadows to tweet this particular message today! What good is early season snow when you plan on opening late?
Excellent time for the share button. Use it!
But then why have a season ticket if you can’t use it till late in the season… they are only opening to get the Christmas/New Years skiers… it’s kinda like running a little town for the tourists and the heck with the people who support them all year round… that sucks… obviously it is no longer about the ability for everyone to have a great ski season… it’s only about the bottom line dollar…. get the most out of the suckers who don’t know better…. go Johnsville!!!!
several places in SV and Nth Shore today released a 20% and 25% lodging sale for travel by Dec 31st. How are the sales of passes and rooms at Vilage@Sq going (and Sugarbowl looks pretty full).
December 13th??!! There was a time not that long ago when we could ski on Thanksgiving and get home and have the aroma of the turkey cooking. Now we have turkeys running Alpine. Tragically I’m not surprised by the latest insult being heaped on us by the KSL overlords. Yes, Squaw will be there but lets face it, on Red Dog in the early season we’re dealing with the icy ribbon strip of white death. So until we get proper mountain managers running Alpine we’ll be stuck with yet another example of the disconnect between KSL overlords and the people who love and respect Alpine Meadows.
Disappointed! KSL sucks
This is exactly why consolidation and buying up the competition is bad for the ski industry. When Squaw and Alpine were competitors, they used to race to be open first and stay open last.
If anything, Alpine should open first due to receiving more natural snow, higher base elevation and lower operating expenses. However, KSL wants to force people to spend money in the soul-less village and thus open Squaw first.
I agree with Mark, its time for locals to speak up and demand our mountains operate with our best interest in mind.
Krazy Spending Lunatics will open Alpine when it benefits their bottom line, and not one penny sooner, so sad. We can only hope the incorporation of Olympic Valley is enough of “a stick in their spokes” to make them cut their losses and get the heck out. I plan to “break even” on my Sugar Bowl, Northstarvenlywood and Mammoth Pass by the time my ” home resort” opens. This is just the latest example of life according to the Keep Screwing Locals corporate ethos. Think snow, if we get it maybe they will cave and open on time, instead of late. :0)
F%$# these guys..
… John Riley and Nick Badami are spinning in their graves.
Assholes shouldn’t own ski areas !!! Take note KSL !!
I was shocked to hear my phone message today, as a real person from Squaw Valley was inviting me to get my season pass before prices went up on Oct. 13th.! How many times has that ever happened? I’ve been skiing along time and that was a first. After seeing this post that my HOME mountain won’t open until mid December……I think I’ll keep my money in my wallet for now!
Does KSL remember what the ALPINE brand is/or was???? Look it up!
Rest assured that there will be plenty of snow on the “Loop Road” this winter. Five, count em’ , five new state of the art wand style snow guns between the bakery and the equipment road under hot wheels?! Maybe they are going to fill in hot wheels gully and make a terrain park, how cool would that be?
Ive also been hearing numerous rumors that there will be NO PARK at Alpine Meadows this year. What kind of bullshit is that?!!!!!
Maybe to keep out the onesies? LOL
Ha, No way! 🙂 They love the Onesie Wednesday crew there! Park or no park, we will be there spreading our silly, zany vibes all over that mountain. That is as long as KSL doesn’t shut down Alpine mid-week, (another rumor thats been floating around). Cant foresee that really happening though. Thanks for spreading the news Mark. I hope the rumors are false.
You guys have lost the whole old school vibe away from a mountain that used to boast the longest season in Tahoe. Since KSL took over it’s been a total reversal of the way the mountain used to be handled. It’s a shame that the once greatest place for the longest season and being all about the skiing has become a place all about the dollar. NICE JOB RUINING ALPINE!
What’s really funny is that the advertised calendar for teams lists Dec 7th as the start date for all. In the past, if Alpine didn’t open in Nov, then first day of teams was also first day of skiing. KSL’s got some fishy business going on…
What a tragedy. The soul of Alpine is in peril. KSL is a disaster. Aside from late starts and early closing and lousy food, the worst case is that KSL gets forced to sell by impatient investors and the next owner in line is even worse. (And by the way, i might be a little impatient if i were a KSL investor…they have spent a lot of dough without the big returns that must have been promised.) Here’s an idea: How about we do a Sugarbush, turn Alpine into a co-op/skier-owned hill run by skiers for skiers. Issue shares to locals any anyone interested in owning a piece of a great mountain and buy KSL out. It worked in Vermont, why not here?
Calling our friends at the Mountain Riders’ Alliance…did you see this post Jamie?
Yes, a Co-op model would be a great fit for Alpine Meadows. And I think Hors Piste means Mad River Glen, which is next door to Sugarbush.
Apologies to Jamie and Mark…yes, I did mean Mad River Glen. Sugarbush is the Squaw/Corporate Giant to MRG’s Alpine in Vermont. Even tho I have been skiing Alpine for 25 yrs now, I am always tickled when I see a “Ski It If You Can” bumper sticker. That place is the genuine article. I also like the ideas for “occupying” Alpine to benefit the Haakon’s fantastic program. It would be a real test of KSL’s mettle if they were to permit / endorse such a program…or call out the Sheriff to throw us out.
I don’t think they can throw you out… When I used to plow the parking lot, we would always have to accomated the overnight campers/rv’s in the parking lot, because it was National Forest.
Is it time to pull some “Out Cold” stunts and sabotage KSL? Its sad that resorts are only catering to the super wealthy and the bottom line for their investors. I’m hoping their is still a little bit of soul left in resort skiing but its looking more and more like there is none.
PS LONG LIVE ONESIE WEDNESDAYS AND ALPINE PARKS!!!!!!!
good luck, they moved the terrain park to Squaw and let the employee at Alpine go
Dec 7th, or better yet the thanksgiving weekend, we should organize a ski/hike/celebrate Alpine day and go get some turns, and end with a “full moon” photo for KSL to suck on.
Yes, speak up and act out. That said, I know I would rather help fight with positive support than get mired in negativity bashing the new and obviously uncaring Dark Lord of valley real estate. Voldemort ultimately loses, you know. Fight the good fight. Never lose the real focus of the Alpine spirit.
OR – Perhaps instead of skiing (blasphemy, I know) we all focus on the spirit of Thanksgiving, and give to the AWESOME disabled ski program at Alpine (and not at the other place). I know many corporations matching dollars for giving right now (double your contribution) and I know of no one who hasn’t been inspired by the awesome challenged athletes we have among us. I for one would gladly hike and ski on Thanksgiving to raise money and help share and enable the snow riding love with veterans, children, and other adults with disabilities. Oh, and I bet Voldemort can’t touch that program’s money whatsoever… bonus.
Excellent idea. I love the idea of a little positive protest.
Both of these ideas are awesome, my husband and I would be happy to participate in either- especially the protest that benefits the awesome disabled ski school.
Both great ideas. Will be in if I can swing it.
Sounds like people are interested in both, Here’s a link I found to make it even easier to contribute to the Disabled Sports USA Far West: http://www.dsusafw.org/contribute.shtml
Talk to your employers about gift matching, as this is the “season” when many large employers will do that. The company I am affiliated with is matching my contribution 100%, so PLEASE ask, it matters! -OR- Give highly appreciated stocks (you transfer the tax impact, but the charity won’t pay taxes), give cash, and perhaps best of all, give your time and effort when you can.
As to Occupy Alpine Meadows (awesome name credit to Jamie), since it would not be a Voldemort approved activity, we should not do it, or at least speak of it here again. Wink, Wink.
December 7, Occupy Alpine Meadows Day, I love it!
I move to Incorporate Alpine Meadows Ski Area! Give the people back their mountain, Andy!
this reinforces why buying out-of-village is wiser.
Thank You Mark for stating so eloquently what I have been thinking since I heard the news – this decision really grinds my gears as I have no car, stay at alpine most of the winter, and rely on the al/sq shuttles to get me between resorts when I so choose, with Alpine not opening until dec 13 I am basically screwed on transportation . I will be sending an e-mail and a letter to the geniuses at KSL this week . Not Happy , Not at all.
Mark,
Imagine booking your passes and your family holiday only to find out AM is shut and shuttleless.
Have projected opening dates ever been correct? It seems like every year ski areas throw out some random dates, and end up opening sooner or later depending on conditions. While there’s many things I can bash KSL about, it’s a bit early to jump the gun on this. And I think they have done a lot better than JMA, even with a couple weak winters. It would be nice if all the ski areas would just go with the seasons. Open when there is enough snow, close when it melts. Save the money for snowmaking and keep the mountain open later. Until it snows for real, it’s mountain biking season.
Truth. (except that it is always mountain biking season)
What baffles me is why did KSL put that note up in the first place? What do they have to gain? Obviously, numerous people are NOT happy about an assumed later start date. If they wanted to open later, they could easily have come up with some “current conditions” excuse at the time. If anything, announce “open Thanksgiving” and hopefully move more people to a single resort with apologies at a later time.
This was about the dumbest PR move they could make. Totally pointless to shift people away from tolerating to now loathing KSL.
well no surprise here, Alpine has been headed in this direction for the past few years, now late opening, removal of their terrain park (good and bad, but there were other places it could be). Now it makes me wonder why they spent more money moving the snowmaking lines and spending so much of their money on snowmaking. In the days before KSL it was so Alpine could open early with or without natural snow. Get over it, KSL doesn’t care and never will. After almost 20 years in Alpine Meadows, I am now not only cutting out Squaw as I have done in the past three years, but after this year (and only because I already bought a pass) I am giving Alpine the middle finger too. I’ll drive to a resort that does care in the future, who needs you now. KSL=killing skiers lives
Hello
I came across your site during my researches into real estate in the area. Squaw Valley’s Shirely areas itself is too boring for my family and the grandchildren, the Vail Resorts are a graveyard at night, and Alpine Meadows was ‘just right’. Why for the love of Mike would anyone purchase a high end condo in a KSL resort?
CONTACT ANDY WIRTH and let him now how you feel. Drop a message on his Facebook https://www.facebook.com/andy.wirth?fref=ts
I would recommend keeping it polite and constructive if you want to get an appropriate message across….but that’s up to your discretion.
And tell everyone you know to do the same!!
Hello,
Being an overseas destination tourist, I’m looking for a very fun mountain, however the Village lodging sale was about $2000 per week which was steep I thought when added to the silver passes (which are effectively useless now for our first 3 week holiday). The Hyatt in Incline looks closer to “my’ epicski resorts. Sierra Casino has a lovely new spa though. Where to stay? Is Tahoe Donner close enough to Sugar Bowl, Grand Sierra Casino and Northstar to rent a home for 2 x 3 week stays in December and again in March. Those $299 midweek season passes look very tempting as an adjuct to my epicpass. Thanking you for any guidance.
Member, Ski Club of Gt Britain.
Hey, this was the first day on the job by that new PR lady from Amex & HeltonHonours Resorts. Maybe she needs two Starbucks double shots before making any decision 🙂
Wow, Mr.Wirth and Co. are really sucking some eggs on this announcement. Figure Alpine is lower in cost to operate, so early and late seasons @ Alpine would rule.
Guess I just don’t know sh%t from shinola.
Thanks Wirthless, thanks again for the sexual experience as you continue to screw locals.
open that f$%^3r today, b*&^%!
Kind of hard to ski Squaw when your gear is locked up at Alpine. Darned inconvenient as well. A Sugar Bowl pass is looking more likely now.
How about free Hearing Aids with every season pass? If the County is listening and Andy are listening – their hearing aids need new batteries!!!! 🙂
http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/csp/mediapool/sites/TahoeTribune/News/story.csp?cid=8464164&fb_comment_id=fbc_517980928287683_3330597_518356174916825
Maybe Alpine Meadows will open some terrain, and operate a bus from AM to SV. Here’s hoping new Batteries help the deaf.
Hey UA,
“Community impact’, say BoS lady Motgomery is important. To Montgomery is that code for “run the community over with the bus”. If she wants re-election, she better get a peace broker process real fast, and reveal any water deals.
This is what she said in that other e-newspaper:
“Montgomery said that three issues have stood out so far in the project — traffic, water, and community impact.
“I believe that it has to have that balance. It has to be good for the community. It has to be good for the economy and it has to be good for the environment,” said Montgomery.
And the county has made every effort to get out as much information as possible about the project, hosting presentations about the Squaw development at nearly every Squaw Valley Municipal Advisory Council meeting, she said.
But it remains to be seen whether the county can successfully broker a process that brings the developers and the community to a compromise, or whether Squaw’s village expansion will end up like many of the county’s Tahoe projects in the last decade — argued over by lawyers and decided on by a judge.
~ Comment on this story below.
What peace process would she recommend coz the UN is a bit busy.
How on earth can the County broker a thing? They make money (unless a town is incorporated) and she said she wants what’s good for them (ie their piggy banks). Placer are also implementing recommendations from committees that the Nstar and Squaw guys are or were on. Placer’s Board of Supervisors also decide what these committees tell them to do as a ‘recommendation’. P{lacr are like being the Judge Prosecutor, Jury and Executioner. Her Board of Supervisors and her County are so conflicted the County may as well hire KSL’s Cal Strategies to come up with a solution.
Appoint a retired federal judge or a federal marshal like Jonathan as that’ll keep them on the straight and narrow I say.
I think SLT’s board member Bill Crawford and FofLT Professor Patching should come to the next IOV meeting and talk about failed bus subsidies, greenwash and hoodwinking committees. Placer County’s Jennifer Montgomery should come along, in my view, and tell all. Maybe they can get someone from the Grand Jury Association along – the annual conference on 28-29 October is a short drive from Squaw.
Mr. Wirth Recently wrote a letter to the ed in Sierra Sun stating that he and ‘they’ are listening. to us, the locals.
Have to wonder if he knows what the diff is between listening and HEARING??
Does anyone remember the many negative comments a couple of winters ago about Squaw’s early season snowmaking capabilities or lack thereof, compared to Alpine and the terrain provided to ski on.
One colorful description that sticks in my mind pertaining to Squaw’s greatness or lack thereof in snowmaking over Alpine, one contributor described as the ‘White Ribbon of Death’ in regard to the lame as f#%k runs of Red Dog looptee go-around and the b.s. Resort run. How the f#%k does that even compare in quality to A.M.?
For starters, what part of snow making metrics in Mr. Wirth’s mind does Squaw at 6200′ base have advantage over Alpine at 7800′.
Squaw sucks early season and every one who knows anything about skiing around Tahoe knows this.
If Mr. Wirth and his associates are so intelligent and informed, they why don’t ‘they’ understand this simple fact?
Will Squaw have enough water to sustain lame as f#%k snowmaking and a horrendously sized monstrosity village development in the future while the hidden gem of Alpine Meadows becomes the proverbial ‘red-headed, step child’?
Mr. Wirth, and his associates in all there public glory, as I have witnessed seem like typical J.A.N.A.’s (just another narcissistic a$$hole when it comes to their comments and decisions to f#%k up N.Tahoe skiing like never seen before.
Say something. Please explain the great solutions like where’s the green windpower electricity used to run things like they do for Telluride’s gondola, or the car funi in Russia, there’s lots of things out there better than displacing lokels with parking for BMW SUVs.
Apparently, Mr. Wirth, after seeing the movie ‘McConkey’ thought, “I can do that”, went skydiving and f#%ked himself up bad enough to require surgery according to Sac news last night.
Best wishes for a speedy recovery and do over.
Is Squaw part of pumping poop and water as part a grand plan to unify water boards?
OLYMPIC VALLEY, Placer County — Water utility service in Martis Valley near Truckee would be transferred to the Northstar Community Services District under a plan discussed Thursday (Oct. 3) by the Placer County Water Agency Board of Directors.
The proposed transfer was reviewed as part of the PCWA board’s annual eastern Placer County meeting, which was held at the Squaw Valley Public Service District office. PCWA is a countywide water resource agency that is headquartered and normally meets in Auburn.
PCWA operates groundwater wells to serve about 1000 water customers in the Lahontan, Martis Camp and Schaffer’s Mill communities in Martis Valley. The area is known as Zone 4 and is one of five service zones operated by PCWA. The other four are in western Placer County.
Brian Martin, PCWA Director of Technical Services, said that Northstar CSD, which already provides daily operation of the Zone 4 system under contract with PCWA, is better positioned to own and operate the system.
Northstar CSD General Manager Mike Staudenmayer said his district, located next to the service area, could provide efficient water service and benefit through increased numbers of customers.
Martin said the transfer has been under discussion over the past two years and could become effective by mid-2014. He said the transfer must first be approved by the Placer County Local Agency Formation Commission.
“PCWA has no debt on the Zone 4 water system, as the facilities were paid for and installed by developers of the properties,” Martin said. “We’ll continue to work with Northstar and support them during the transition.”
In other eastern Placer County business, PCWA directors heard an update on the Truckee River Operating Agreement (TROA) and briefings from local Tahoe/Truckee area water purveyors:
PCWA legal adviser Elizabeth Leeper said the TROA, signed in 2008, has yet to take effect and is now under federal court review. The agreement documents available water supplies and is intended to govern water use in California and Nevada.
Mike Geary, general manager of the Squaw Valley Public Service District, briefed the board on proposed development in the valley and the district’s efforts to meet water supply and other utility needs.
Cindy Gustafson, general manager of the Tahoe City Public Utility District, reported on her district’s ongoing efforts to unify the many small public and private water purveyors that line the west shore. She said there are 23 independent water purveyors within the district’s 52-square-mile boundary.
Steven Poncelet, public information and conservation manager for the Truckee Donner Public Utility District, provided an update on the district’s water and electricity services and thanked PCWA for its support and participation with the district and Northstar Community Service District in completing the Martis Valley Groundwater Management Plan.
The next regular meeting of the PCWA Board of Directors will be held at 2 p.m. on Thursday, Oct. 17, at the PCWA Business Center, 144 Ferguson Road, in Auburn. PCWA board meetings are open to the public.
Information on PCWA board meetings may be obtained through the Clerk to the Board at (530) 823-4850 or (800) 464-0030.